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The music theory knowledge swap shop! (pg. 4)
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| Zild |
| Modes are a normal scale but have a different tonic. That means you start the scale or play the scale around a note different than the usual root note. |
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| Sonic_c |
Just explain that a little so take c major for example?
D would become root note? if you move up one?
So the I (1ST) chord in c major in ________ Mode would be D,F,A |
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| Zild |
| I think a c major scale using D as the tonic is Dorian, but it has been a very long time since I cared about theory, so I might be wrong. |
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| Frost-RAVEN |
I think trance music and music theory can go very well with each-other. I'm willing to bet that the coolest melodies you hear are ones that use theory. Cause the really interesting is hard to figure out by ear. I doubt you're gonna accidentally stumble onto a pivot chord or a secondary dominate.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
Where chords can go!
I (Tonic) Can be followed by any chord
II (Supertonic) Can be followed by V,III,IV,VI, OR VII
III (Mediant) Can be followed by VI,IV,II,V
IV (Subdominant) Can be followed by V,I,VI,II,VII
V (Dominant) Can be followed by I,VI,III,VII
VI (Submediant) Can be followed by II,V,IV,III
VII (Seventh) Can be followed by I,VI,III,V
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It looks more like this,
I/i (Tonic) Can be followed by any chord
ii*/ii (Supertonic) Can be followed by IV/iv,V,vii*
iii/III (Mediant) Can be followed by VI/vi,IV,I/i
IV/iv (Subdominant) Can be followed by V,I/i,
V (Dominant) Can be followed by I/i,VI/vi
VI/vi (Submediant) Can be followed by ii/ii*,VII/vii*,IV/iv
VII/vii* (leadingtone) Can be followed by I/i
It's important that you get the cases right cause that means a lot. It shows that you are talking minor and major. Cause you don't want all your chords to be in the same quality (IE all in major or all in minor). That's where the beauty comes in is switching the qualities around. If a track is in a minor key, that doesn't mean all the chords in that tune are gonna be minor.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
Ok so if just using standard 1 4 5 4 2 3 1 prog is boring how can we spice it up? These second chords tell me tell me!
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Okay secondary chords are a bit hard to grasp at first, but they are the most awesome thing in music.
You're progression, i iv V iv ii* III i. First off, you shouldn't end your progression with a III to i. I'm gonna change it to V i instead of III i. Anyway, let's add some secondary chords. We need to know what key we're in, let's say A minor.
So, that progression translate to this: A minor, D minor, E major, D minor, B diminished, E major, A minor.
Okay so first you gotta understand cadence and dominate functionally. I'll give you the crash course. V goes to I/i, take my word for it.
So what if we used that to our advantage? Well notice how I ended our progression with V i, that's a cadence because it sounds like it belongs. Just take my word for it. The V of A minor is E major...
Well what if before we got to that chord we used the V of V to add a extra pulling sensation. Let's move over to the key of E major temporary. And now let's just for a moment make E major the tonic or I. What is that V of E? It's B major. Now that we have that lets stick it in our chord progression.
A minor, D minor, E major, D minor, B diminished, B Major, E major, A minor.
The motion from B major to E major is really strong cause we "borrowed' a V-I cadences from another key, that's why it's called secondary. The effect becomes even stronger if we make that chord dominate7th.
A minor, D minor, E major, D minor, B diminished, B Major Dominate, E major, A minor.
How do you make a chord dominate7th? Add a 4th note. So you'd just stick a "A" in your B Major chord to give it a Dominate 7th sound.
Wow, I talked for a long time, and that was like 2 years worth of theory knowledge so it may sound like UHehkluetiharhiurureajhkregakhljr. I hope you liked it.
I like helping ppl learn music theory cause i truly think it makes our music sound better. |
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| Sonic_c |
Ok I almost get you I know about cadences they are perfect imperfect interupted and summit else right v to i, iv to i etc?
How can we borrow a chord from another key Ill break down how i try to understand tell me if I am wrong.
So this is in A minor right? so the V is E major? now using that as a scale and taking the V from E major scale we can steal a cadence from another key E major? And because E major is the dominant chord in our a minor key it sounds nice right? |
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| Sonic_c |
Ok im getting well f***ed off with this whole chord thing.
For example I thought the 7th chord was diminished in scales? so how in this example is the ii* diminished?
Why does the 3rd chord in A Minor sound e? C,E,G# Right?
I cant get to the III from any other chord in A minor without it sounding off?
Why if you try to do this theory stuff and write a chord sequence in c major keeping it simple does it sound boring but then when you just forget the theory and mess about with the keys can you get much more interesting results?
If you are in the key of C major then you can only use white keys yes? So why sometimes a chord with a black key or two sounds nice with it?
If you sharpen the fifth making a chord augmented in C major It would have a black key in. Is it still in C major?
Is there a way of working these things out that i am missing? |
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| Frost-RAVEN |
Find me on AIM,
SN = Dustsoft.
I can help you out, but we'd need to talk more directly. You're starting to ask pretty big questions. Which there are answers to.
The reason why I wanna help is because the more ppl that know theory, the better our music will sound. |
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| Jimb0b |
| quote: | Originally posted by Frost-RAVEN
The reason why I wanna help is because the more ppl that know theory, the better our music will sound. |
Why not post here? it makes for interesting reading, but its like reading a book thats just getting to a good bit and then ends! lol, so it would be nice if you two / three was to carry on here and share your knowledge with us mere mortals (speaking for myself anyway! hehe)
Thanks! |
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| Sonic_c |
Yeah we will continue here im sure but Frosdt did give me a lesson on aim and a midi fiel or two which really helped.
Frost see if you can explain going out of scale to spice things up a bit better people are obviously listening!
The threads had over 1000 reads! |
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| Jimb0b |
| It's all a little over my head at the moment, but as I progress this thread will make for good cross-referencing. |
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| Frost-RAVEN |
Thing is, I'm sorta jumping to topics that are really advanced. Like teaching chord progressions is one thing, but if you don't know voice leading, then it's kinda useless.
Well here is voice leading stuff.
All that voice leading means is inverting chords around to make progressions sound good. It's common for chords to be written in four parts. You could say Soprano alto tennor bass. We call this four part writing. Now four parts? But chords have only three notes? Yeah well you double one of those notes, and there is a whole section about section about which notes to double and when. (yeah peeps, theory guys thought about this pretty hard). Though you don't have to do four parts, three is just fine. And as far as inverting goes with chord progressions, you want the following chord to be smoothly voice lead.
What's voice leading again? Well lets call the notes voices from now on. You don't want the voices to jump to far or cross over each other, think of them as their own little melody line. You probably can google search "good voice leading" and maybe find some good stuff.
Bottomline, good voice leading is needed to make your chords flow together nicely.
Anything else I should go over? |
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