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James Joyce's "Ulysses" (pg. 4)
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
:stongue: |
but seriously- what kind of theorist/author/scholar goes out of their way to write things that are un-readable, or at least completely ambiguous or confusing to the reader? The way to become "immortal" is to write something memorable, not to get the intelligensia arguing about your BS for some time to come. Fvck that. Look at how marx influenced the world with a book barely 50 pages long? (note, im not saying marx's influence has been positive of course!) |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
but seriously- what kind of theorist/author/scholar goes out of their way to write things that are un-readable, or at least completely ambiguous or confusing to the reader? The way to become "immortal" is to write something memorable, not to get the intelligensia arguing about your BS for some time to come. Fvck that. Look at how marx influenced the world with a book barely 50 pages long? (note, im not saying marx's influence has been positive of course!) |
Justice be made, they were aiming for completely different things. James Joyce was an artist, and Marx was a scientifically-minded philosopher.
A scientist shouldn't be confusing, and an artist shouldn't be obvious. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Justice be made, they were aiming for completely different things. James Joyce was an artist, and Marx was a scientifically-minded philosopher.
A scientist shouldn't be confusing, and an artist shouldn't be obvious. |
good points, but not being obvious doesn't mean you have to obfuscate everything or go out of your way be un-obvious. either way is rather contrived imo. complication for complication's sake isnt my idea of a great artist.
a great artist can deconstruct the most complex themes and make it understandable by the common man, or at least the common literature professor! |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
pkc on joyce:
"tosser". |
fayraree on pkc:
"poofta" |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
good points, but not being obvious doesn't mean you have to obfuscate everything or go out of your way be un-obvious. either way is rather contrived imo. complication for complication's sake isnt my idea of a great artist.
a great artist can deconstruct the most complex themes and make it understandable by the common man, or at least the common literature professor! |
Personally, I think originality is more important than clarity, as "being clear" really presupposes an "end" i.e. being useful.
Sure, aphorisms are great, but if you're able to do something never before imagined by anyone else... that's the starting point to actually producing a piece of art, in my really humble opinion on this subject. |
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| Meat187 |
I read Portrait some years ago and must say it's among the most terrible books I've ever touched. Since Ulysses is supposed to be written in similar style I don't even want to imagine how ty it is.
Seriously, who likes this crap? Portrait had nothing even remotely enjoyable about it, I regret every minute I spent with that book. What is there to enjoy about books that are so twistedly insane that you need to make notes and consult the analysis of several professors to even remotely understand what's going on. I always had the impression that people don't really like stuff like this, they just like liking it. |
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| paulandrews |
| Had to read it in high school, never finished it. Perhaps I will return to the book when I feel the time's right. |
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| TranceGiant |
No Kafka, no Mann, no Tolstoi, no Dostoyevsky (ha! wrote it right this time)...??
Strong Anglo-American bias here... |
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| akalouda |
| I have read Ulysses. Its on my top 10 list. Its like taking a labyrinth to a mountain top, and once you made it to the top it feels like you're heaven. |
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| Meat187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by akalouda
I have read Ulysses. Its on my top 10 list. Its like taking a labyrinth to a mountain top, and once you made it to the top it feels like you're heaven. |
I'd say it's more like having a rusty nail stuck in your eye, and once you take it out you realize how great it feels not to have a rusty nail stuck in your eye. |
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| akalouda |
| quote: | Originally posted by Meat187
I'd say it's more like having a rusty nail stuck in your eye, and once you take it out you realize how great it feels not have a rusty nail stuck in your eye. |
or that:) |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGiant
No Kafka, no Mann, no Tolstoi, no Dostoyevsky (ha! wrote it right this time)...??
Strong Anglo-American bias here... |
Yeah.... I think it's the top 100 books published in the English language... I was thinking earlier that there are a number of notable absences (Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Achebe, Tolstoy, Dumas, etc.) |
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