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Putin: by law, "Dissent" = Treason now
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| The17sss |
Maybe things aren't so bad here in the U.S. after all? Putin and his puppet Medvedev have pushed through a new definition of treason that will include any information given to non-governmental organizations (NGOs) that Moscow doesn't like, setting the stage for a new tyranny by the former KGB master. Gulag time!:
| quote: | Under Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, people who fraternized with foreigners or criticized the Kremlin were "enemies of the people" and sent to the gulag. Now there's new legislation backed by Vladimir Putin's government that human rights activists say could throw Russia back to the days of the Great Terror.
The legislation, outspoken government critic and rights activist Lev Ponomaryov charged Wednesday, creates "a base for a totalitarian state."
Government supporters and Kremlin-allied lawmakers said the bill- submitted to the Kremlin-friendly parliament last week- will tighten up current law. Supporters say prosecutors often have trouble gaining convictions because of ambiguities in the definition of state treason.
The bill would add non-governmental organizations based anywhere in the world that have an office in Russia to the list of banned recipients of state secrets. The government has repeatedly accused foreign spy agencies of using NGOs as a cover to foment dissent. |
Uhh, isn't the Red Cross an NGO? Also, election observers work for NGOs.... Let's say Russia holds an election and Russians give information to election observers that the government has corrupted the voting process. That's a ticket to the gulag for anyone caught doing it, and guess what? They won’t even get a jury trial:
| quote: | | In a separate development Wednesday, Russia's upper house of parliament passed legislation that would end jury trials for those facing charges of terrorism and treason. Instead, they would face a panel of judges. |
Is the AP serious? Wow what a coincidence :rolleyes: "Separate development" my ass!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081217...sia_treason_law |
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| otec |
Yeah, Russia is in deep right now. The sunny times are over, people are cut off from the credit, they are loosing their jobs. Social security and job protection is a big big joke.
The ruling elite is afraid people come to streets and protest. That's why they make/change the laws like the one above.
It's really stupid situation, no one have cared about the future while they enjoyed the prosperity of oil revenues. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by otec
Yeah, Russia is in deep right now. The sunny times are over, people are cut off from the credit, they are loosing their jobs. Social security and job protection is a big big joke.
The ruling elite is afraid people come to streets and protest. That's why they make/change the laws like the one above.
It's really stupid situation, no one have cared about the future while they enjoyed the prosperity of oil revenues. |
I read something the other day that said about 75% of Russians (in Russia) believe their economy is in great shape. Newspapers aren't allowed to use words like "recesson", "depression" and "economic downturn" at the request of the Kremlin apparantly. My wife's brother called her the other day asking how we are able to survive over here and if we would be living in the street soon (based on what he has been reading over there). lol.
I didn't know people were cut off from credit over there... I guess this will start to open peoples' eyes to the truth. What do you think man... is Russia caught in a cycle that's heading back to Stalinistic times? |
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| otec |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
I read something the other day that said about 75% of Russians (in Russia) believe their economy is in great shape. Newspapers aren't allowed to use words like "recesson", "depression" and "economic downturn" at the request of the Kremlin apparantly. My wife's brother called her the other day asking how we are able to survive over here and if we would be living in the street soon (based on what he has been reading over there). lol.
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That's a total rubbish. Read Russian newspapers before putting such accusations.
www.gazeta.ru
www.kommersant.ru
www.vedomosti.ru
I see the aboved quoted words like twice or even more in one sentence.
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
I didn't know people were cut off from credit over there... I guess this will start to open peoples' eyes to the truth. What do you think man... is Russia caught in a cycle that's heading back to Stalinistic times? |
They are not cut, I've just exacerbated here, but who wants to take a loan with 20-30% rent?
Just check loan/mortgage conditions by a few big banks there.
http://www.citibank.ru/
http://unicredit.ru/ |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by otec
That's a total rubbish. Read Russian newspapers before putting such accusations.
www.gazeta.ru
www.kommersant.ru
www.vedomosti.ru
I see the aboved quoted words like twice or even more in one sentence. |
I'm not personally making the accusaions, I'm just telling you about what I read from a publication here (or maybe a UK outlet). I haven't read any Russian newspapers and I wasn't qualifying that statement. |
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| otec |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
I'm not personally making the accusaions, I'm just telling you about what I read from a publication here (or maybe a UK outlet). I haven't read any Russian newspapers and I wasn't qualifying that statement. |
Seriously man, I'm not surprised. It's like talking about the US internal politics based on the material from atimes.com
Just read Russian sources first, then make such silly threads. |
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| George Smiley |
Is this really a thread criticising Russia for prosecuting people who pass on state secrets?
What, is that legal in America or something?! |
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| otec |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Is this really a thread criticising Russia for prosecuting people who pass on state secrets?
What, is that legal in America or something?! |
Well, actually the BIGGEST downside and worry of this law is that the government can easily apply it to the dissident movements like "Other Russia". But once again, if Kremlin really wanted to get rid of such movements they would do it long time ago.
Not to say not all NGOs do something useful for Russia and it's people. And anyway, can anyone say how many of these they have in the US or say Britain? |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by otec
Seriously man, I'm not surprised. It's like talking about the US internal politics based on the material from atimes.com
Just read Russian sources first, then make such silly threads. |
look, that side note about certain words to be used or not used in Russian publications is besides the point. The thread is about Russia pushing legislation that will allow them to treat dissent (in the Kremlin's definition) as treason and deny the accused jury trials.... and the effects that could have on the election process and in regard to NGO's. Surely a Russian like yourself wouldn't consider that silly. |
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| Magnetonium |
To be honest, American system doesnt treat terrorists and those who committed treason any better than Russia does. Yeah, like Americans appoint jury to trial for those who got caught passing state secrets, yeah right!
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Putin and his puppet Medvedev |
Ugh, for the last friggin time, they are BEST friends - he aint no puppet. Medvedev and Putin (and some other persons in the "inner circle") have been friends for many years! This just illustrates how little you guys know about Russia ...
In Russia, there are more serious problems with traitors and terrorists. Dont forget the Caucasus conflicts and constant occasions when government/military officials take bribes for everything from state secrets to passing merchandise through borders.
On a serious point - the real story that should be discussed instead is how poorly Russian police have responded to Vladivostok protests over increased tarrifs on foreign automobiles. They weren't nice and friendly, thats for sure. I wasn't impressed. Dont worry - Putin didnt order the brute force - its a problem that runs in Russian mentality, for generations.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7794560.stm
It's a shame.
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| otec |
| Medvedev is actually a Putin's puppet. Everyone knows that. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by otec
Medvedev is actually a Putin's puppet. Everyone knows that. |
well said, otec... well said. |
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