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Stupid Jews! (pg. 7)
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by akalouda
From that point of view...it's relevant to ask, which came first, the egg or hen? |
Which came first is not actually a relevant question, which is good because it's pretty difficult to answer (being as Arabs predate Hebrews as being the resident ethnic group but Jews predate Muslims as being the resident religious group and the ethnic and religious interplay between the two groups has become completely interwoven).
The more important question is what is the proximate cause of the present conflict. That is a much easier question to answer... colonialism. Israel is essentially the newest European colony, in as much as it is a country created by Europeans (European Jews) which displaced a previously established culture (Palestinians). Understandably, the Palestinians want autonomous control of what they believe to be their land; however, Israelis are not willing to give up control of land they believe to be theirs (either through the UN mandate, war, or birthright if viewed through religious eyes). Of the three potential solutions (one state, two states, relocation) the only viable one is the two state solution, which had real potential to work in the mid 90s but it now; due to Israeli settlement of the west bank, it seems that neither side is willing to give up enough to satisfy the other.
I think the clock is ticking for Israel though; they need to find a way to satisfy the Palestinians before the post colonial regimes in the area collapse and are replaced with Salfist (an Islamist ideology) regimes, particularly in Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. Those regimes are likely to fall apart in the next 25-50 years; assuming they don't smarten up and actually take care of the needs of their populations rather then operating as kleptocracies, and will be replaced by Salfists. The Salfists will not tolerate Israel as the present regimes have and once they gain control hope for lasting peace in the region is lost. Additionally, Israel needs to realize that the US is cutting bait in the region and won't be there to protect them forever. |
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| akalouda |
| quote: | Originally posted by Viber
I agree, israelis and toothpaste are evil. |
Nedomrd... |
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| diggerz |
| let's all agree that Iran is the root of all evil. |
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| XaNaX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I think the clock is ticking for Israel though; they need to find a way to satisfy the Palestinians before the post colonial regimes in the area collapse and are replaced with Salfist (an Islamist ideology) regimes, particularly in Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. Those regimes are likely to fall apart in the next 25-50 years; assuming they don't smarten up and actually take care of the needs of their populations rather then operating as kleptocracies, and will be replaced by Salfists. The Salfists will not tolerate Israel as the present regimes have and once they gain control hope for lasting peace in the region is lost. Additionally, Israel needs to realize that the US is cutting bait in the region and won't be there to protect them forever. |
Israel has nukes, they don't need our protection. You think they won't use them if the alternative is being overrun and occupied by several Islamic nations? |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by diggerz
let's all agree that Iran is the root of all evil. |
I'm sorry, I cannot agree to that... I'd say they're really only the root of 23.4% of evil. |
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| akalouda |
| quote: | Originally posted by diggerz
let's all agree that Iran is the root of all evil. |
What has Iran done to anyone?...Firstly it's just words, which they have no power to back up...Secondly, Iran government don't hate jews, and Iran government just want to get rid of the Zionist regime and blame them for being the real nazis...thirdly Iran government has no support from the people whatsoever.
Edit: And the nuclear program is because their country is ed up economically, and have not enough power supply to support the people... and they have currently only oil/gas as energy source. |
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| akalouda |
| quote: | Originally posted by diggerz
Iran needs to get rid out their nuclear program ASAP |
You believe they could have opted for another alternative energy source?... |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
Israel has nukes, they don't need our protection. You think they won't use them if the alternative is being overrun and occupied by several Islamic nations? |
I think that is true right now, I don't think it will be in 25-50 years (when it is likely the Salfists would take a run at them). While Iran is not presently seeking a nuclear weapon what they are doing is verging (much the same as Canada, Japan, and several other countries). This is to say that they are laying the ground work so that if they do want a nuclear weapon they can opt out of their international agreements and make one in a short period (based on the infrastructure they have in place now... 3-5 years... for Canada it's closer to 1). If Salfist regimes take root throughout the Arab world Iran is likely to go nuclear (as it will finally have a measure of support from the Arab world)... and it only takes one nuclear weapon to negate Israel's deterrence strategy (as mutually assured destruction becomes a reality).
More pressing then Iran; however, is Pakistan, which is already a nuclear power with delivery systems that can easily reach Israel and enough warheads to level it several times over. Pakistan is not presently a threat to Israel; however, the political climate in Pakistan is taking a decisively more Islamist bent, which is likely to increase over time... 25-50 years allows the political culture to change quite a bit. While Pakistanis share no ethnic kinship with the Arabs a Pakistani regime that is significantly Islamist is likely to retaliate against Israel if it were to launch nuclear attacks on Salfist Arab regimes. The probability of retaliation from Pakistan would likely be sufficient to convince Israel to keep the silos closed unless it looked like they were absolutely destined to lose a conventional war or guerrilla war (the latter being what Israel would need the US to help with if the recent war with Lebanon can be used as any indication... in the 60s Israel had a fighting force; now, it is more an occupation and security force). |
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| diggerz |
| quote: | Originally posted by akalouda
You believe they could have opted for another alternative energy source?... |
i took that back because i failed to acknowledge that nuclear power is their only defense against their neighbors. |
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| XaNaX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I think that is true right now, I don't think it will be in 25-50 years (when it is likely the Salfists would take a run at them). While Iran is not presently seeking a nuclear weapon what they are doing is verging (much the same as Canada, Japan, and several other countries). This is to say that they are laying the ground work so that if they do want a nuclear weapon they can opt out of their international agreements and make one in a short period (based on the infrastructure they have in place now... 3-5 years... for Canada it's closer to 1). If Salfist regimes take root throughout the Arab world Iran is likely to go nuclear (as it will finally have a measure of support from the Arab world)... and it only takes one nuclear weapon to negate Israel's deterrence strategy (as mutually assured destruction becomes a reality).
More pressing then Iran; however, is Pakistan, which is already a nuclear power with delivery systems that can easily reach Israel and enough warheads to level it several times over. Pakistan is not presently a threat to Israel; however, the political climate in Pakistan is taking a decisively more Islamist bent, which is likely to increase over time... 25-50 years allows the political culture to change quite a bit. While Pakistanis share no ethnic kinship with the Arabs a Pakistani regime that is significantly Islamist is likely to retaliate against Israel if it were to launch nuclear attacks on Salfist Arab regimes. The probability of retaliation from Pakistan would likely be sufficient to convince Israel to keep the silos closed unless it looked like they were absolutely destined to lose a conventional war or guerrilla war (the latter being what Israel would need the US to help with if the recent war with Lebanon can be used as any indication... in the 60s Israel had a fighting force; now, it is more an occupation and security force). |
yes but even if the Arab states became nuclear powers 25-50 years from now MAD would likely keep peace in the region the same way it did in Europe during the cold war. As much as the Islamic nations may hate Israel none of them hate them enough to make getting rid of them worth watching their largest cities and millions of their people wiped out in a nuclear fireball. The Islamic nations would not invade with conventional forces because a victory would mean an almost certain nuclear attack by Israel. They can't use their nukes because Israel would respond in kind, and the major wildcard is what we would do. Islamic nations overrun Israel, Israel nukes them, Islamic nations retaliate, what a perfect excuse for us to get rid of all our enemies in that part of the world in a massive nuclear attack. Pakistan would do nothing because they are well aware that the US would not take kindly to them escalating a nuclear conflict they have no business in and one or two Ohio class sub could destroy all major population centers and all major military/industrial sites in their country. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by akalouda
You believe they could have opted for another alternative energy source?... |
While I do believe that their immediate concern with the nuclear program is energy (hell, they've been trying to get a nuclear energy program up and running on and off since the mid 70s) they are also designing it for the purpose of verging (see post above). The goal is to have enough nuclear infrastructure that a weapon could be made on short order (3-5 years) if they ever choose to. This is what worries the international community. That said, no one seems to care that Canada, Japan, and many others have the same or greater capability. |
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| akalouda |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
While I do believe that their immediate concern with the nuclear program is energy (hell, they've been trying to get a nuclear energy program up and running on and off since the mid 70s) they are also designing it for the purpose of verging (see post above). |
Have you seen any plans or proof, to confirm they are verging against nuke weapons? Or is this just your logic...
anyways, nuclear technology should be abolished since the humans of today's earth are not developed to use it with the right intentions...it's definitely too early for us... and this also proves Einstein was an alien (and a jew). |
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