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Can you really "learn" to write *great* music just by working hard at it? (pg. 4)
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| DigiNut |
Effort does not equal outcome.
Lack of effort, on the other hand, is generally the shortest path to failure. |
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| Notle |
| Cant say about trance, but like one pro house producer (cant remember who) said its 90% technical and rest is talent. I think hes right, you have to have ear for music to make basic melody and hear whats good and not, but the rest putting song together, arrangement , little tricks and details and mixing is most important to get that pro sound. And picking the right sounds....and good gear:D |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Notle
Cant say about trance, but like one pro house producer (cant remember who) said its 90% technical and rest is talent. I think hes right, |
Hence the reason there's so much worthless crap in electronica. The music that stands the test of time are the songs that have a strong sense of melody and are artistically well done. A trained monkey can learn to work a compressor, but creating music with soul takes much more than 10%. |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
You know this is one of those age old questions of nature vs nurture.
And even though I wonder m myself, in pyschology we are taught that MOST things in life are a combination of both.
Tiger Woods for example, was he born with superior hand to eye coordination or was the product of his skill a result of start at an early age and having a great teacher?
A lot of us here don't have great teachers, and a lot of us didn't start playing the keyboard when we were 6. So EVEN in the respect of our environments w/out the interplay of genes we are already limited.
Than there are pro bodybuilders who obviously use steroids, and have superb diets yet there are thousands of men using just as much juice, have even better diets, and still will never reach that level physically.
Than you have people who are born with these genetic talents and never discover them because their environment doesn't nurture it to ever bloom.
Than you have the most important group of people, people like us.
People who frame their thinking through scarcity and a self defeatist map of reality.
MAYBE, just MAYBE, this right here, this wondering and questioning of our own limitations is actually the biggest setback a man can subject himself to.
Maybe that gene that makes people great is a gene that stops people from doing what is going on right here, trying to guess what our true nature is. Maybe the best of the best realize intuitively theres no way of knowing, so maybe they don't care, and maybe thats why they are able to do things we can't.
Because while we're busy questioning our true potential, they're out there right now feeling free, like they don't have limits, and whether or not is TRUE, maybe just believing it is is enough. |
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| DJMiakoda |
Who cares if you're naturally talented or not (if there even is such a thing)?
If you enjoy making music shouldn't that be what matters? I lose all track of time when I sit down to create, I enjoy it that much.
I never got into music thinking 'I hope I'm naturally talented cause I want to write the best music ever', I got into it because I was and still am fascinated with the world of music and I love creating it.
If you love music, nothing else should matter I would think.
Enjoy the process. |
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| MOK |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
[a great post] |
^ Wicked.
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Effort does not equal outcome.
Lack of effort, on the other hand, is generally the shortest path to failure. |
^ True. |
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| Lolo |
Basically, anything with a soul comes from what you heard and resynthesized in your head. The paradox in a musician's life is that people will only keep the simplest melodies and ideas in mind while he/she kept struggling about sound, originality, the holy grail, that doesn't exist for musicians (hope you got it right, I DO believe in the real holy grail that's in the bible!).
Well, I've seen this happen dozens of times around me, those guys are simply struggling about one sound and their music in general, trying to be cool, and one day they make what they think a "cheap tune" which turns to be their biggest hit, and they don't believe in this "cheap music" until they realize how soulful their record is. Truth is that we're all the same including myself, trying to be cool, underestimating the power of simplicity.
The human factor, your state of mind, will always reflect itself in the way your knobs are turned or your automation got done. Like it or not. I hate some records that I did, and often they happen to be people's favourite records, until I get it myself. And even after ten years, I still hate Industry, although it's always funny to play it at gigs.
L. |
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| -FSP- |
genius is 90% perspiration 10% inspiration.
You'll never know if you don't try.
To be great, you really have to put in the hours as stated before. Tiger Woods did it, a lot of musicians did it (see the thread where scientists say it takes 10 years of HARD WORK to be great at a skill, that list includes mozart).
I'm assuming that many of the producers are of clubbing age and older. The older you get the less time for hobbies you have i think.
You have to put in the sweat, blood, and tears to be good.
The old saying goes:
You'll never, ever know unless you try.
I say: You'll never, ever know unless you work your ass off.
Many people try something for a week, realize that they suck and say "i'm not born with it." Another cliche saying is "successful people get knocked down more than unsuccessful people because successfull people keep trying and dno't back down"
You're going to get your ass wooped by the muses as you learn to make music, simple as that. NO ONE was born making their magnum opus out of the womb.
Well if you've been working your ass off for two years, and nothing has come of it, scientific american says you got 8 years to find out if you suck. |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Or is there something that you have to be born with? Something that you either have or you don't? Something that no amount of instrument practice and music theory and sound engineering courses and synth manuals and hours of slaving away at melodies and chords and beats in front of your computer will ever provide?
Maybe this question haunts every producer who hasn't yet written anything that he truly believes is moving and "professional." I know I think about it sometimes. Anyway, this little exchange in another thread made me think about the issue: |
i think JmanNZ answered this best.
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
[EDIT TO ADD: I'm obviously not talking about people who are deaf, or tone-deaf, or have no sense of rhythm at all. Basically I have in mind people who have an "average" or maybe slightly "above average" musical sense and really, really want to make great music.] |
no need to preclude people with disabilities from the discussion, especially when there are shining examples like Beethoven. |
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| Zomg |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Maybe. There are two sides to this I guess...
1. Maybe the people who think they can "do anything" are just deluding themselves and wasting their time.
2. Maybe the people who think they're crippled by "lack of talent" or "lack of early training" are just using that as an excuse not to work harder. |
exactly.
I hope i can achieve everything i want with hard work , cause if not, then whats the point, "ill just quit, wait in my room and die."
However with music its not that easy i assume. Since its not just to be good at something, say making sounds, or learning WIndsurfing or body building.I think everybody can be great at stuff like these, so for EDM, everybody can be superb at creating sounds and mastering.But to make great melodies it takes talent. But i believe you have to be involved sufficiently to realise that you have talent, since "this is not for me, i guess ill quit" is a great excuse to quit at everything. Especially at EDM i think is where the least amount of talent/creativity is needed(this is just my opinion) since you can make remixes of other potential tracks and making an awesome superb incredibly interesting sound sometimes is enough for a great track anyway.But of course then its again harder with EDM because what if you are really creative, but have no knowledge what so ever how to make sounds,if you dont learn, then youll never realise that you were talented. |
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| noicuc |
Depends on what "Great" music really is.
If your talking about classical , hell no. You really got to do be born with it.
But if your talking about trance / house music , its really technical stuff really... but yeah its kinda hard to think of a good melody hook that will pass on for a few years....
But i do believe that , if your really really interseted in something.. you can actually learn how to do it faster.. |
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| MOK |
Why would one need to be 'born with it' for one style of music, but not for another?
That concept makes no sense to me. |
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