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F22s Dropping Like Flies (pg. 4)
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| Sirus Black |
| the planes have minds of their own. i wonder if there are CANADIAN engineers working on them. can someone enlighten me with the answer to that? |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Well thats always a plus to any power, but I meant there could have been justice served to more of the organizations that attacked the US if Pakistan had been dealt with differently.
The Taliban was also pretty awful from anyones perspective as well. If they had been chased across the border and dealt wtih accordingly there would be a much more stable situation in Afganistan right now. I am not saying it would be wonderful, but at least a lot of the militant elements leading resistence movements would be weaker or non-existant. |
the war was waged to capture strategic areas not for justice. LOL @ justice |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
the war was waged to capture strategic areas not for justice. LOL @ justice |
Maybe justice was an inappropriate term.
The original goal was though to capture and kill al Queda and Taliban elements that helped plan the 9-11 attacks. Of course this turned out to not work too well when all of them ran across the border to Pakistan.
Proof is the number of al Queda and Taliban members captured or killed in Pakistan compared to Afghanistan.
Strategic areas, while a main reason for the US to go anywhere is not that great in Afghanistan unless their goal was to exert pressure on Pakistan. As a base to enter into conflict with Iran there are much better options.
Afghanistan was a failed attempt by the US to capture or kill its enemies. When this failed it was spun to be "bringing democracy" to Afghanistan. The same with Iraq, though the ulterior motives there were a lot more numerous. |
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| Zild |
Not so much afganistan as we already had the green light on that country, but what we really wanted was Iraq.
And you're missing the greater picture. I'm not talking about wanting to attack Iran or Pakistan. I'm talking about having FOBs in the area with extra carriers in the gulf so that we can move other resources over to the pacific in which case we can surround China and Russia. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| Haha, you guys play video games. |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Haha, you guys play video games. |
And you play alts. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
Not any longer.
And you play make-believe every day of your life, shoo. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| I don't miss Red Flag one bit. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
this is an absurd statement and reflects a complete underestimation of the capabilities of the F-22. In mock engagements the F-22 has put up these kinds of numbers:
Exercise Northern Edge: 12 F-22s of the 94th FS downed 108 adversaries with no losses
Red Flag 07-1: the Raptors downed almost the entire agressor force of F-15s and F-16s even though the agressors had vast numerical superiority and the ROE allowed 4-5 regenerations of each agressor force plane. This was done at a loss of one F-22 which came when the pilot of an agressor plane regenerated and reentered the battlefield so quickly that the Raptor pilot mistakenly thought he was still "dead".
1st Fighter Wing ORI: F-22s scored a simulated kill-ratio of 221-0 against the agressor force
These are kills against F-15s, F-16s, and F/A-18 Superhornets, not Vietnam era MIG-19s. A Raptor could down as many MIG-19s as it has missiles and cannon rounds and the planes would never even see it. I can't remember which one of those mock engagements it was but the Raptor pilot said that him and his wingman killed 20 F-15s and were never even detected by them. |
You have no idea how much planning and set up goes in to Red Flag and other training excercises. I am not saying the results are totally false, but that they are far from real world.
F-22 is capable, but it has never been tested under combat conditions, especially in a situation where AWACS might not be available and the surface threat would be much greater.
Also I was trying to make a point that China would have the means to throw lots of aircraft at a flight of F-22s, not to mention that their SAM systems are numerous.
One of the key parts of being stealthy is avoiding radar detection by flying around them. Iraq and Kosovo were countries with limited resources in terms of radar. China would have radar all over the place.
Over estimating technologies like this is the same thing that happened with the F-4. The whole mentality was that dog fights would never happen again since the advent of air to air missiles. They ended up having to put gun-pods on the early models till they started building cannon into them because Soviet forces flying for NVA would get the jump on them in close range and the F-4s had nothing to fight back with. |
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| Omega_M |
Looks like Lockheed Martin is working hard to market their new F35 over F22, which anyways has been plagued by so many problems and has been in "development phase" for over two decades. It reportedly costs LM about $137 million a piece to make F22s, at a program cost of $ 65 billion. At this rate, they'll need to sell atleast about 472 units to break even. They've only sold about 135 fighters till date. And things are not looking good for sale beyond 187 units.
Compared to this, F35 will eventually cost about $ 87 million and expects orders from USAF, Marines and Navy. Consider this...USAF intends to acquire about 1765 of these babies. The Marines intend to acquire about 340 of the F35Bs, a variant of F35. The British intend to replace all their harriers with F35Bs. And then the US Navy wants about 480 of the F35Cs.
Way too much money to be made here guys!! F22. Crash a couple of them in "tests", kill a few test pilots and the program gets terminated abruptly...
/CT mode |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
No such situation exists with the F-22. Stealth technology, air to air missiles, supersonic fighter jets, these are all now well understood and mature technologies. The F-22 is an evolution of these technologies whereas the F-4 was really the first of its kind. What the F-22 provides is the ability to have complete air superiority in a conflict against a country like China. |
When though has stealth ever been used against a mature and massive military force such as China? It hasn't.
All of this is theoretical and Murphys law is the truth on the battlefield. |
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| xtr3m |
The guy in the front. This is what Russia been working on.
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