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The real monitor thread...... (pg. 5)
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
That's funny - I find the opposite - I think they sound really good for just listening to commercially produced music (especially R&B, pop, hiphop etc.) but not so great for monitoring. I used to be staunch defender of these a while back but really started to notice a muddyness in the band between mid and low, and found that most bass frequencies are over represented in lower mids.
I always knew their stereo image was exaggerated and could compensate but the bass and mid separation further causes that to be problematic. I think things have moved on and there's better out there now for the money.....so......
I've been doing an intensive shootout between all the major models at pro audio retailers and will post my findings soon, with what I found to be the best of the bunch at each price point..... |
Dodged a bullet, there. I assume that goes for the MkII's? |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Dodged a bullet, there. I assume that goes for the MkII's? |
I find the Mk1's better than the mk2's but in fairness I haven't spent anywhere near the time with the mk2's.
I think there's better monitors out there now for the money - they're still good monitors but if you're looking for really flat and accurate, it's not the HR824's. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I find the Mk1's better than the mk2's but in fairness I haven't spent anywhere near the time with the mk2's.
I think there's better monitors out there now for the money - they're still good monitors but if you're looking for really flat and accurate, it's not the HR824's. |
I was basing such a prospect, in part, on having heard the HR624 (I not II) at Guitar Center and heard Eminem being played through them and was impressed with the resolution around the mid-low end - but then my setup was even more ghetto than it is, now.
Please, be sure and post that review. I was pretty much buying into the THX certified hype, hook, line, and sinker. I'm sure they would have been a significant upgrade and suited me perfectly, but if there's better to be had for the money... |
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| Rob |
| M1 Active MK11's here, bought them about a year and a half ago and have since stopped producing. Really never like the sound, but wanted a studio monitor. The reason I don't like them is because they really don't have the bass to make a really punchy earth moving bass/bassline, but then again I don't have a paired subwoofer for it, which I think is the problem. Will be keeping them but looking at a system that sounds nice, and will probably go for computer speakers or a hi fi system, but it will need a sub :whip: |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Thanks for the "creative" input Diginut - The only thing is, I don't think you're actually joking in your analysis :toothless |
I'm late - sorry, was gone for the weekend plus. But I actually was not joking, I really use those speakers and that really is what they're like (well, I embellished a little).
Although I'm sure it would have been more useful to post a detailed review of more popular and/or expensive monitors, assuming I had any, I think it's still good for people to know that there are producers here who get by on less. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I'm late - sorry, was gone for the weekend plus. But I actually was not joking, I really use those speakers and that really is what they're like (well, I embellished a little).
Although I'm sure it would have been more useful to post a detailed review of more popular and/or expensive monitors, assuming I had any, I think it's still good for people to know that there are producers here who get by on less. |
I know - I was more commenting on the creative description and the language used. I too used a pair of really ghetto sony speakers for a while, and it helps give perspective.
Eddie - I will post it up when I've completed my shootout, but the 624's are a different matter - I actually *think* I prefer them over the 824's becuase they don't have that bass/lower mid problem...but more on that when I post the full thing.....:) |
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| DJ RANN |
Finally, I've had time to sit down and write a review.
Preface: I listened to every monitor they had at two different guitar centers and one other pro audio store. I listened to mainly electronic music (becuase the whole point of this was it's for us) but also checked some classical such as Chopin, Bach and Bartok for more diverse reference. I used the same music sources and went on several occaisions. Bear in mind this is a comparitive test in every sense; going from my hifi speakers at home (Scnadyna Minipods) and Custom Quested VS2108's and B&W 802's (albeit less experience on the latter two for electronic music but still having referenced all the test material first on these several times). This was not a blind test but but I tried to remain objective between models on really noting differences first then overall perception. I set the monitors and the system so the volumes were as equal as could get them so A/Bing would be accurate with the same material. I don;t care for aesthetics ubnless the thing is just plain fugly, in which case I'll state it. Finally this is all my own subjective opinion.
This thread is about monitors, for the studio to the review I did is with that in mind as the primary requisite.
I'll start with the most noticeable things in no particular order:
Firstly, nearly all the 5 inch monitors, from every brand fell short in bass and/or mid reproduction. The ones that really felt lacking compared to their larger same brand alternatives were the KRK's and the Yama's, partly becuase the larger version were quite good and partly becuase the smallers were so bad.
The mackies/tapco's in 5 inch sizes (mr5's etc) were lacking a lot of detail but probably good for small home DJ setup and these went seroiusly loud before distorting. The HR624 were very crisp in the upper mids and hi's and but had so much bass response lacking they would be unusable for a serious monitoring setup. I would find it quite difficult to get a bass mix right on these without secondary referencing.
The bluesky monitors were good, if not some of the best smaller monitors but not quite enough to challenge the bigger monitors. They wer well balanced with good detail and a good amount of bass for their size but it did get a little muddy in the upper mid and the very low bass rolled off sharply. These were also quite pricey for what they were bearing in mind their competition.
The mackie HR824's were, at one point my monitor of choice, and even though a large part of mixing with monitors is knowing them, the more I've got to know them the less I like them. I find their mids very pronounced, bass hugely extended and hi's generally good. However, they have one of the biggest (and misleading) stereo spreads combinedwith a hige sweet spot meaning mixes done on them that sound wide and full come out narrow and lacking on most other systems. Also the bass is becoming my main gripe with these. I used to love it, but now I find a definite muddyness in between the lower mid and bass and have problems listening to subtle differences in these bands to the point I can;t hear what's going on. Don;t get me wrong - these are good monitors, but personally, I wouldn't shell out the $1000 per pair anymore as there's others that do a great job....
The KRK's: I would go through the models individually but all them (yes all of them) suffered from one common problem: there was this lack of fine detail accross the whole rnage of frequencies. It's wierd - none of them stood out as terrible but because of this problem, none of them stood out as fantastic. It's like a screen of material was placed over the driver. In fact the VRX8 were quite difficult to hear what was going on at all becuase like the mackies they suffer from the huge and unnatural stereo image. They were my least favourite 8inch monitors.
of the larger monitors (6inch+) , the ones that stood out were the Dynaudios BM5A, BM6A, Adam A7, Quested F11, Yamaha HS80m.
The dynaudios were superb in detail with strangly enough the BM5a's sounding slightly more natural than the BM6's due to the overall balance of the frequencies. The BM6 have more bass but the detail was just outstanding on the BM5's. The only critiscism of the BM5's was that they did lack bass slightly - It's like they slowly roll of at 100hz but that was the only flaw I could find and that can be adjusted for. They also did not change frequency balance depending on gain, which the BM6's did ever so slightly (bass got a tiny bit more pronounced as you went higher).
The Adam A7's were simply incredible with Hi's - crisp and sizzling, nothing else came close but the mid and bass felt lacking and they were not as clear as the Dynaudios and would not give a true representation of bass frequencies I felt.
The HS80's were quite great in general. The bass full and deep without being muddy or overpowering, the mids nice and clear and the hi's just nice and present. I felt you could listen to these for hours and they wouldn't even take long to get used to. The only problem is that you need a bog room as they begin to boom in a smaller room (as one of the test sites did). They don't have a misleading huge stereo image and I felt quite comfortable hearing productions I've made. These were in my top three especially as they are cheaper than a lot of other monitors.
Alesis m1 mk2 - not massively impressed but the again I never have been with these. They're not terrible and you can mix on them but again I find the lack of definition annoying, especially in the bass frequences.
Now for the surpise.....the moonitors that got me to part with money?
JBL LSR 2325 - New 5 inch monitors from JBL. Why? becuase for $400 (less with my discount ;) ) nothing else in that price bracket sounded anywhere near as good. I was torn between the HS80's (too big) the BM5's (too much $$$) or these. They are small, clear powerhouses! The bass is sharp and defined, the mids clear and punchy without being boxed in and the hi's are just right to give detail without inducing fatigue (hi's are what always get me tired in a session). The main thing I like is that it's like having larger monitors wihout needed the space for them, They sound like 6 or 8 inch monitors in terms of bass response but can be used in small room. The stereo image is broad but not too wide and so far translation is so easy. No weird spikes or compensation. There were no reviews on these anywhere (they were only out for 4 days when I bought them) so I was taking a big chance but I can say that after two weeks of owning them I am seriously pleased. honestly nothing comes close at this price and they just destroyed every other monitor in terms of perforamnce at that price range. |
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| johno27 |
After much debate I eventually landed up going with a pair of KRK VXT8's .. I'm really happy with them to be honest. We struggle here to decide on speakers because there is not a SINGLE store that can demo any models or even keeps stock. It's a case of you want it you order it you pay, if you like it or not. One store here happens to demo/sell KRKs so after taking some material and giving them a good listen (+a sizeable discount on sale) I went with them.
I'm finding the VXT8's to have incredible low-end, tight and punchy, good enough mids and with adjustment the highs are sitting perfectly for me. Within 30min I took off a mix and went and listened to it in the car (my ultimate test) and the mix was 200% better than anything I'd had before using my Tannoys. At the end of the day this what it's all about for me.. how does the mix translate and in that respect the KRK's are working well.
I'm considering adding a KRK ERGO unit as well, not sure if anyone has tried one or has any thoughts on it? |
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| david.michael |
Event ALP5's
Pros: Fantastic clarity, nice stereo image, clean looks.
Cons: I definitely, definitely need a sub. These are too forgiving on the mid-low frequencies and the sub-frequencies barely exist. I get a mix that sounds absolutely amazing on them, and then play it in a car, and it sounds like a pile of mud.
Overall I really enjoy them and even recommend them, but I think it's time for a sub. |
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| Owsey2008 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
The HS80's were quite great in general. The bass full and deep without being muddy or overpowering, the mids nice and clear and the hi's just nice and present. I felt you could listen to these for hours and they wouldn't even take long to get used to. The only problem is that you need a bog room as they begin to boom in a smaller room (as one of the test sites did). They don't have a misleading huge stereo image and I felt quite comfortable hearing productions I've made. These were in my top three especially as they are cheaper than a lot of other monitors.
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+1
Picked up a pair last month, really enjoying them :) |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
That's funny - I find the opposite - I think they sound really good for just listening to commercially produced music (especially R&B, pop, hiphop etc.) but not so great for monitoring. I used to be staunch defender of these a while back but really started to notice a muddyness in the band between mid and low, and found that most bass frequencies are over represented in lower mids.
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That's true, I went to a hip hop guys studio and the beats sounded pretty awesome through them, and at my school they had hooked up to an SSL console and rock music sounded nice and bassy. But when it comes to techno... Ugh the kick just sounds so annoying. |
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| Luke Terry |
I have the original M-Audio BX8s which I love. Some of my friends have the laters BX8as and they are nowhere near as crisp and have far too much bass.
I feel mine are starting to get a little 'tired' but the ones I've been considering upgrading to are just too much money |
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