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Obama's speech to the Muslim world (pg. 3)
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
You see a list of contibutors?...well, if they are contributors, that means.. Gasp .. they made contributions. Its up to you to look them up. My post wasn't part of the debate, it was simply a list one could look up if one wanted. |
not exactly...it's more like a list of people you say made contributions. I'm not looking into it because i don't care enough to do the research. Since i don't know you i assume you are incorrect unless you provide citations proving your claim.
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Its interesting to see western arrogance protrayed in the text books. The past from the 6th century up untill [well, now] muslims have been the primary contributors. |
that's patently false. Have you ever heard of a period of time called the industrial revolution? It would be a huge struggle to name a muslim contributor to the industrial revolution.
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Even today muslims from india, china, and most of south east asian, and even the middle east, are the ones who come to ameirca and europe and designe every thing. Look up the people who do these things some day. Don't jsut assume that since its from the west, it was made by a white aetheist. |
Another baseless claim. Name one of those great muslim american contributors!! European americans are by far (a very very very distant first) the greatest contributors to american science & technology since the inception of the US (i'm sure today that has more of an asian twist).
Have you ever heard of Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Oppenheimer, Solheim, Robert Fulton, Charles Goodyear, Samuel Morse, Joseph Henry, or Alexander Graham Bell? Which one of them was muslim? |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
not exactly...it's more like a list of people you say made contributions. I'm not looking into it because i don't care enough to do the research. Since i don't know you i assume you are incorrect unless you provide citations proving your claim.
that's patently false. Have you ever heard of a period of time called the industrial revolution? It would be a huge struggle to name a muslim contributor to the industrial revolution.
Another baseless claim. Name one of those great muslim american contributors!! European americans are by far (a very very very distant first) the greatest contributors to american science & technology since the inception of the US (i'm sure today that has more of an asian twist).
Have you ever heard of Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Oppenheimer, Solheim, Robert Fulton, Charles Goodyear, Samuel Morse, Joseph Henry, or Alexander Graham Bell? Which one of them was muslim? |
A lot of those contributors are Jews. There used to be an email circulating the tubes pointing them all out. |
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| cronodevir |
The industrial revolution was 1 tiny thing in the past 1400 years. And most of it was built from knowldge on phsyics and math discovered by Muslims.
Just because things took place somewhere doesn't mean those things are a result of the people there. China produces pretty much all of the worlds goods, that doesn't make china the originator of those inventions and ideas.
My point is, nontheless, in the fact that most of the contributions by non-westerns are underated, or straight up lied about. And as for the middle east, most of this deception is in the fact that the west has been fighting the middle east for the passed 1500 or so years. Most of the poitics today even, reflect that emnity.
Arguing about what nation contributed to the world is retarded. Most of the things the west consider contributions, are minor bull to others, and vice versa. But the least one can do is accept that the west in general undermines the rest of the world when reporting these things, all in an effort to make itself look like the best movement on the face of the earth.
Look at any map. You have a region called "europe" its seperated from asia by one thing, the color of the people on the european border. To me that says a lot. |
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| Krypton |
Just look at Moorish Spain. While midieval Europe was wallowing in the darkness, the city of Valencia, Moorish Spain had running water and street lights. Not to mention the largest library in all of Europe at the time.
When the Moors Ruled in Europe
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
The industrial revolution was 1 tiny thing in the past 1400 years. And most of it was built from knowldge on phsyics and math discovered by Muslims. |
the industrial revolution was the most important period in modern history that shaped the way we live today. it wasn't merely a trivial event as you seem to imply.
while important, the basic knowledge and theories expounded by muslims were nothing in comparison to the advanced theories and discoveries of subsequent scientists from europe. The basic theories eventually would have been discovered (obviously, the delay of these theories could have effected the timing of subsequent discoveries).
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Just because things took place somewhere doesn't mean those things are a result of the people there. China produces pretty much all of the worlds goods, that doesn't make china the originator of those inventions and ideas. |
that's a horrible comparison. are you suggesting that discoveries by european americans were somehow attributable to muslims?
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
My point is, nontheless, in the fact that most of the contributions by non-westerns are underated, or straight up lied about. |
i can agree to that. the west has a very euro-centric focus, but you are severly overstating the contributions by muslims. the truth is most muslim contributions are foundational (which is important), but muslims haven't contributed much to the advancement since then. sorry buddy!
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Arguing about what nation contributed to the world is retarded. Most of the things the west consider contributions, are minor bull to others, and vice versa. But the least one can do is accept that the west in general undermines the rest of the world when reporting these things, all in an effort to make itself look like the best movement on the face of the earth. |
who's arguing about which nation contributed the most? you brought up the fact that you think muslims create everything in the US and europe. If muslim countries had so many great thinkers why are muslim countries holes? If muslims are so good at solving problems and being innovative, why can't they innovate their political systems past brutal dictatorships?
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Look at any map. You have a region called "europe" its seperated from asia by one thing, the color of the people on the european border. To me that says a lot. |
i don't disagree. However, i live in the US and what europe does is of no concern to me. To me, Mexico is part of north america even though Mexicans are 'browner' than americans. booyah bitch! |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Just look at Moorish Spain. While midieval Europe was wallowing in the darkness, the city of Valencia, Moorish Spain had running water and street lights. Not to mention the largest library in all of Europe at the time.
When the Moors Ruled in Europe
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.....and look now at the stark difference between morocco and western europe!
furthermore, how does that prove that muslims made great contributions? to me, it just shows that the pyrenees mountains were a great barrier from the rest of europe. Geography had much more to do with that than religion.
I'll admit one thing, southern spain has some dope architecture. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
A lot of those contributors are Jews. There used to be an email circulating the tubes pointing them all out. |
true dat - jews fleeing europe were a huge boon to american innovation. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
.....and look now at the stark difference between morocco and western europe!
furthermore, how does that prove that muslims made great contributions? to me, it just shows that the pyrenees mountains were a great barrier from the rest of europe. Geography had much more to do with that than religion.
I'll admit one thing, southern spain has some dope architecture. |
Linking geography to the huge intellectual advances of the Moors is ridiculous. Is it a factor. Probably helped maintain a period of stability. But was it a causal factor. NO. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Linking geography to the huge intellectual advances of the Moors is ridiculous. Is it a factor. Probably helped maintain a period of stability. But was it a causal factor. NO. |
i think i read that incorrectly. i read too fast and made a faulty assumption about you post (i.e., for some unknown reason i thought you were talking about the plague and diseases - i'm not sure how that happened). my bad.
nevertheless, spain during the middle ages doesn't prove much about muslim contributions. To me, it proves that they could provide a stable political environment during that period: that's it! maybe you can expand on how that shows muslim contributions during that period. Having a large library and sewers (neither of which were new at the time) in spain in the 11th century (or whenever) doesn't seem like much of a contribution to modern society. |
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| cronodevir |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
If muslim countries had so many great thinkers why are muslim countries holes? If muslims are so good at solving problems and being innovative, why can't they innovate their political systems past brutal dictatorships? |
Because muslims aren't in control. Arab governments are maintained by western entities.
Saddam refused to follow the whims of the west, and look what happened. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Because muslims aren't in control. Arab governments are maintained by western entities.
Saddam refused to follow the whims of the west, and look what happened. |
That's a bull cop-out. just like a muslim to blame all of their problems on everyone except themselves. you must be muslim.
anyway, muslims aren't in control of western countries either, and according to you muslims thrive (to a greater extent than any other group) in western countries. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
i think i read that incorrectly. i read too fast and made a faulty assumption about you post (i.e., for some unknown reason i thought you were talking about the plague and diseases - i'm not sure how that happened). my bad.
nevertheless, spain during the middle ages doesn't prove much about muslim contributions. To me, it proves that they could provide a stable political environment during that period: that's it! maybe you can expand on how that shows muslim contributions during that period. Having a large library and sewers (neither of which were new at the time) in spain in the 11th century (or whenever) doesn't seem like much of a contribution to modern society. |
I would recommend watching the documentary I posted. |
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