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Where does clipping actually occur
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| kitphillips |
This is a bit of a boring question. But where does clipping actually occur?
I ask because when I was playing on saturday night, a friend of mine came over and asked why I was clipping my master, to which I replied that I wasn't actually clipping it because I had the soundcard volume turned down to -6 dB.
So assuming I have my soundcard turned down (in the driver's dialogue box) to -6 and I'm peaking in ableton at about 3 dB over, is this actually causing distortion, or is it still 3 dB under the point where clipping occurs.
In other words, does clipping occur in the DA stage of your soundcard or at the actual master volume on your DAW? |
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| mysticalninja |
| i'm pretty sure it's still clipping. |
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| Storyteller |
+1.
If the volume reaches over the maximum anywhere then that's the place where it is clipping. In this case the dj-mixer. Couldn't be any more straightforward could it? |
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| mysticalninja |
| same goes with indiviudal channels, if your clipping any of those but not clippin on the master, you are still clipping those channels. im pretty sure. i think i may of heard diginut say that's not the case before tho. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
+1.
If the volume reaches over the maximum anywhere then that's the place where it is clipping. In this case the dj-mixer. Couldn't be any more straightforward could it? |
Huh? No the mixer wasn't clipping. Only ableton's master channel.
And given that I knew that it was going out to a soundcard which had an extra 6 dB of headroom I thought it was ok...
@ mystical ninja, my understanding was that individual channels didn't matter and only the master mattered. In this case though the master should have had an extra 6 dB of headroom because I had the output turned down. |
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| Subtle |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
same goes with indiviudal channels, if your clipping any of those but not clippin on the master, you are still clipping those channels. im pretty sure. i think i may of heard diginut say that's not the case before tho. |
You cannot clip indivdual channels, when those channels go high enough they start to clip the master. |
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| mfitterer1 |
| Think of each channel in your chain as its own master. They all have only a specified amount of headroom. If you go over the oDB on any channel, it is clipping. Idk if it will clip the master or not but it will definitely clip the individual channel. |
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| Subtle |
| quote: | Originally posted by mfitterer1
Think of each channel in your chain as its own master. They all have only a specified amount of headroom. If you go over the oDB on any channel, it is clipping. Idk if it will clip the master or not but it will definitely clip the individual channel. |
If it doesnt clip the master id say it will not clip the individual channel either, in a DAW that is. |
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| derail |
I think people should separate out "technical clipping" from "audible clipping".
Yes, if you go over 0 dB on a channel and the clip light goes on, then technically yes, it's clipping.
All that really matters though, is if at the end of the process the audio quality of the song has been affected - have any waveforms (of individual sounds or of the overall mix) been squared off?
Depending how much headroom a DAW has, the waveforms won't start clipping/squaring off at 0dB.
I don't know why you'd set things up this way in any case - if you set Ableton's level to 0 you know there shouldn't be any clipping issues, and then you just turn the output up on your speakers. It seems pointless to risk running into a DAW's ceiling. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
I think people should separate out "technical clipping" from "audible clipping".
Yes, if you go over 0 dB on a channel and the clip light goes on, then technically yes, it's clipping.
All that really matters though, is if at the end of the process the audio quality of the song has been affected - have any waveforms (of individual sounds or of the overall mix) been squared off?
Depending how much headroom a DAW has, the waveforms won't start clipping/squaring off at 0dB.
I don't know why you'd set things up this way in any case - if you set Ableton's level to 0 you know there shouldn't be any clipping issues, and then you just turn the output up on your speakers. It seems pointless to risk running into a DAW's ceiling. |
I do it that way because its hard to get the levels right otherwise. Theres more resolution on the meter the higher you go. So running it around 0 dB allows me to see where the levels are more clearly and keep them more consistent.
What I want to know is where does this squaring off of the waveforms occur? |
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| Subtle |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
What I want to know is where does this squaring off of the waveforms occur? |
If the mixer in Ableton is clipping the squaring off happens there. |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subtle
If it doesnt clip the master id say it will not clip the individual channel either, in a DAW that is. |
not necessarily, you could be clipping that channel, then route it to a group channel and turn that down so its not clipping the master but is clipping on that track. or you could also have a track clipping without the master clipping by turning down the masterfader. |
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