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Differences in loudness (pg. 2)
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| adi_hanson |
i have a trance album in the car , and only because i (try to) produce , ive noticed that , anything by paul van dyk sounds the clearest and best , anything by ferry corsten or armin is too quiet and paul oakenfolds southern sun has a very high pitched back noise , sorta like a TV is switched on with no sound playing.
for example (sorry to bore you)
PvD ft Vega 4 - Time of our lives sounds good at volume 15 in my car.
System F's remix of Moby's - Why does my heart feel so bad, needs to be at volume 25 to sound anywhere near the PvD tune.
AvB - Communication part 3 sounds best at volume 20.
CRW - She's like a cat , is a front runner sounding best at volume 18
Cosmic Gate - The wave , needs volume 25 to sound good.
4 Strings - Turn it around , sounds best at 20
Tiesto- Suburban train , sounds best at 20
So you could say PvD's stuff is too loud , but yet it is so clear when loud , even in my average car with its factory fitted cd player.
And when i make a cd of my own stuff , i need volume 25 to sound good. |
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| Theran |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
True, but that doesn't explain this:
A mastered track would (presumably) be limited to prevent clipping. @Theran - at which stage is the purchased track clipping (i.e., track, buss, or master)? |
The master bus is clipping, immediately when playing the track, this happend with a lot of tracks when I load them in Cubase, that's why I started wondering why there is such a big difference in levels.
@beatflux, looks like a awesome tool, will try it out tommorow, thanks!
| quote: | Originally posted by adi_hanson
And when i make a cd of my own stuff , i need volume 25 to sound good. |
And that's where my question is all about, how is it possible that I mix a track at 0dB in Cubase, while it still sounds softer that the other tracks.
Does other sequencers have this as well, maybe it's Cubase, I don't know.. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/
There is an online analyzer that will display peak and rms values, a dynamic range value, stereo correlation, and there is also a button for mono(to check for mono compatibility). The offline analyzer is what gives official values of Dynamic Range according the the group. For a technical explanation see the manual.
Both analyzers are free! |
Awesome, thanks for this. Been wondering where I could get an rms calculator. |
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| Subtle |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theran
The master bus is clipping, immediately when playing the track, this happend with a lot of tracks when I load them in Cubase, that's why I started wondering why there is such a big difference in levels. |
My theory is that Cubase output level on the master may be set to a safety threshold of -0.1 db for example.. which will make everything mastered to exactly 0.0 db clip. May not be intentionally either, just that the audio engine just works that way. I reckon also that the Cubase clip indicator isnt as accurate as the ones you find in audio editors meant for mastering purposes. |
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| adi_hanson |
| It could be possible that this is nothing to do with sequencers and sequencers cant compute what the mastering engineers do with the track. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| Any equipment you use for playback will generate some level of noise. This means that if you master to precisely 0.0 dB, the playback (audio file + equipment noise) will clip slightly, right? |
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| palm |
| not in software i assume? |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by palm
not in software i assume? |
Yeah, it seems like the master fader in the DAW shouldn't show any clipping, even if the actual signal going to the headphones or speakers would be clipped (because of added noise made by the computer). |
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| dannib |
| quote: | | And that's where my question is all about, how is it possible that I mix a track at 0dB in Cubase, while it still sounds softer that the other tracks |
I think we have answered that already no? Your track hasn't been mastered. The other tracks probably have. |
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| Nightshift |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subtle
My theory is that Cubase output level on the master may be set to a safety threshold of -0.1 db for example.. which will make everything mastered to exactly 0.0 db clip. May not be intentionally either, just that the audio engine just works that way. I reckon also that the Cubase clip indicator isnt as accurate as the ones you find in audio editors meant for mastering purposes. |
I think this is correct because my Ableton does the same thing. If I import a mastered track it automatically clips usually peakin +3dB.
But i tested something and found that if I render a track that limited to 0dB in Ableton's master channel and then open it in an audio editing program it usually peaks -3.0dB in said audio editing program. I think Ableton's staff may have done this on purpose considering the standard mastering process calls for a -3dB headroom so if you dont clip Ableton's master you track is already -3.0dB or lower in real dB meter.
But then again Ableton even admits in its manual that it is not the best program for mastering and they encourage mastering in other software or hardware so im not sure if its the smae thing for cubase. |
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| DigiNut |
| Most of it is likely in the mastering (check RMS, not peak), but a significant part of perceived volume tends to be mixing tricks with EQ, delay, reverb, sidechaining, etc. |
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| Reno |
| Do a test in Cubase. On the stereo out, add a compressor aux send and then a limiter aux send. You should be able to raise the overall volume level with the compressor using the makeup gain but you will see that the limiter stops the track from clipping even when the compression makes the track sound almost inaudible. If you bounce this to wav you'll probably find the track is as loud as your comparison track which basically proves that it is not Cubase that is lowering the level but the mixing and mastering that needs work. |
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