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Tricky mastering of an album....suggestions welcomed
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| DjStephenWiley |
I'm currently working on an album to release through my label that contains tracks from other labels such as Black Hole, Bonzai, etc. The tracks are already mastered obviously. Another obvious thing, not much is going to likely need to be done once I mix it, but I was wondering if anybody has any experience or suggestions with this?
Yes, I have friends online who have opinions. Yes, I run a label. Yes, I have my own opinions. No, I don't know everything. Sorry - I felt I had to write this after reading comments in other threads questioning my intelligence with regards to licensing and distributing music. I'm not perfect and I'm a big believer in getting as many opinions as possible and there are some smart people on here.
Personally, I assume just mix the damn thing and open it in oZone and do what I feel/hear is proper and go with it but I want to know what others think and how they would approach it. I'm going to be using around 20 tracks. (A two "disc" mix compilation) :toothless |
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| Sonic_c |
Thats a good point, if you take a mastered track and run it though ozone or whatever are you not double, or maybe triple compressing something. Wouldnt it just turn to flat mush?
then again the clubs all have big compressor rigs etc and dj's play mastered tracks through them.
Good thread! be interested to hear the answer |
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| DjStephenWiley |
| don't neccesarily have to compress. don't forget about all of the multi-band options with ozone either. that's one of the main reasons i would lean towards using it. i want a tool that gives me the most autonomy over my mix as possible. i just am not quite sure if there are any "standards" or certain things you should "almost always" do when taking on a project like this. It's not that uncommon, but probably uncommon to most everybody who posts here but maybe not. |
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| johncannons1 |
if your talking about multiband compressors i heard they were quite bad for the sound..
(heard it from the interview with that german minimal dj/mastering engineer.) his names robert babicz
he says it destroys tho sound.
(although im using one on the vocals for a track im making now)
:D |
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| Tarpex |
Multiband comps are a tool designed to correct serious irregularities within the mix; they shouldn't even be considered for normal work most of the time, yet most bedroom producers quickly become awed as to how fast they can get something better sounding from their mix, when in reality they're usually just pumpin' the extreme low and high end and then write a topic here as to how top producers have such rich, full and clear sound (no pun intended :))
Stephen, my food for thought is this. All mastered music nowadays is limited quite heavily to 0db. When you're in middle of a transition, the mid+high parts volumes add up to an approximate 4 - 6 dB volume increase, which will lead to clipping in each transition should you have your channel strips on zero. My advice is this, have your channel set so that peaks never get higher than -4, that way you'll never reach 0 dB on master, thus, no clipping. Afterwards, apply some gentle (gentle!) compression on the master and limit for a few dB, try to get as near to 0 as possible.
On the compressor, determine the good audible threshold and just play with the ratio in the 2:1 area, softest knee possible, around 15-20msec attack and shortest sustain/release times available. That way you won't be altering the sound too much, mostly really just gain controlling.
For the limiter, try +3 db first, then work from there. have fastest attack, and again, shortest sustain & release times. Do not dither, since finished masters are already dithered.
This way you'll get a slightly more punching mix, with some imagination it'll sound like it was recorded live, and and generally be more, well, lively :)
Personally I wouldn't use Ozone plugs for this kind of job, if you're bound to software, get Sonnox Oxford plugins, they're ideal for this kind of post-processing.
Let us know how it goes! :) |
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| studiobob |
if your mastering an album and the source material is already mastered then your options are limited. i would reccommend you obtain premaster versions of all the tracks and mix/master the album as a whole putting each track on a seperate channel, applying comp/eq to each and then use the master channel with mild compression and a limiter with a high threshold level so you dont squash the heck out of your tunes.
there will be variations in the volumes of the mastered tracks that you have (unless your very lucky) and therefore putting any kind of dynamic control over the master channel is gonna work well on the quieter tracks and crush the loud tracks, not really ideal! |
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| Tarpex |
| quote: | Originally posted by studiobob
if your mastering an album and the source material is already mastered then your options are limited. i would reccommend you obtain premaster versions of all the tracks and mix/master the album as a whole putting each track on a seperate channel, applying comp/eq to each and then use the master channel with mild compression and a limiter with a high threshold level so you dont squash the heck out of your tunes. |
That is ideal, but that is basically making him master all the material himself, which will not produce the same sound of the tracks as they are, and it will be noticeable.
| quote: | | there will be variations in the volumes of the mastered tracks that you have (unless your very lucky) and therefore putting any kind of dynamic control over the master channel is gonna work well on the quieter tracks and crush the loud tracks, not really ideal! |
That's why we have gain controls on mixers, or any program if the mix will be made on computer ;) |
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| studiobob |
mmm gain pots. useless if one of your tracks on the album has been "mastered" to a +20DB and is one big nasty square wave from start to finish...cos you cant do anything with it.
if you want a sense of cohesion to the album then mastering them all yourself is the way forward. |
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| DjStephenWiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by studiobob
mmm gain pots. useless if one of your tracks on the album has been "mastered" to a +20DB and is one big nasty square wave from start to finish...cos you cant do anything with it.
if you want a sense of cohesion to the album then mastering them all yourself is the way forward. |
impossible |
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| DjStephenWiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tarpex
Multiband comps are a tool designed to correct serious irregularities within the mix; they shouldn't even be considered for normal work most of the time, yet most bedroom producers quickly become awed as to how fast they can get something better sounding from their mix, when in reality they're usually just pumpin' the extreme low and high end and then write a topic here as to how top producers have such rich, full and clear sound (no pun intended :))
Stephen, my food for thought is this. All mastered music nowadays is limited quite heavily to 0db. When you're in middle of a transition, the mid+high parts volumes add up to an approximate 4 - 6 dB volume increase, which will lead to clipping in each transition should you have your channel strips on zero. My advice is this, have your channel set so that peaks never get higher than -4, that way you'll never reach 0 dB on master, thus, no clipping. Afterwards, apply some gentle (gentle!) compression on the master and limit for a few dB, try to get as near to 0 as possible.
On the compressor, determine the good audible threshold and just play with the ratio in the 2:1 area, softest knee possible, around 15-20msec attack and shortest sustain/release times available. That way you won't be altering the sound too much, mostly really just gain controlling.
For the limiter, try +3 db first, then work from there. have fastest attack, and again, shortest sustain & release times. Do not dither, since finished masters are already dithered.
This way you'll get a slightly more punching mix, with some imagination it'll sound like it was recorded live, and and generally be more, well, lively :)
Personally I wouldn't use Ozone plugs for this kind of job, if you're bound to software, get Sonnox Oxford plugins, they're ideal for this kind of post-processing.
Let us know how it goes! :) |
I really like this idea and approach. Best one I've heard yet. I did plan to record soft but not this soft. Will prob do this almost exactly as you've described. Will let you know how it goes. Give me a few weeks. |
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| Tarpex |
| quote: | Originally posted by studiobob
mmm gain pots. useless if one of your tracks on the album has been "mastered" to a +20DB and is one big nasty square wave from start to finish...cos you cant do anything with it.
if you want a sense of cohesion to the album then mastering them all yourself is the way forward. |
Oh god, he said he's getting his tunes from top labels, which kinda have their music properly mastered (and even those that ain't top usually care about quality of their releases), don't complicate stuff too much mate. There's a reason mastering gear costs 20k+ in total, and no software plugs can achieve the same, now you're telling the guy to scrap the masters already done and remaster on software? Has to be one of the silliest ideas I ever heard.
Stephen, you can contact me anytime for any mastering / question related stuff, I've got incoming releases on Black Hole & Armada at the end of the year, and I know a thing or two about music :)
Peace. |
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| mfitterer1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by studiobob
if your mastering an album and the source material is already mastered then your options are limited. i would reccommend you obtain premaster versions of all the tracks and mix/master the album as a whole putting each track on a seperate channel, applying comp/eq to each and then use the master channel with mild compression and a limiter with a high threshold level so you dont squash the heck out of your tunes.
there will be variations in the volumes of the mastered tracks that you have (unless your very lucky) and therefore putting any kind of dynamic control over the master channel is gonna work well on the quieter tracks and crush the loud tracks, not really ideal! |
Wrong
| quote: | Originally posted by studiobob
mmm gain pots. useless if one of your tracks on the album has been "mastered" to a +20DB and is one big nasty square wave from start to finish...cos you cant do anything with it.
if you want a sense of cohesion to the album then mastering them all yourself is the way forward. |
And wrong again. Aren't you a mastering engineer? I hope I'm just recalling incorrectly because you've made some very stupid statements noted above. |
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