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McGimpy's Liberals are suing tobacco companies for $50 Billion (pg. 3)
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| miketg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Huh? What about Europe. Socialists always love to use them as an example. EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY in Europe has a private/public system.
The only countries in the world with a full public healthcare system are Canada Cuba and North Korea.
I would argue that even here in Canada its already a mixed system. DO you go to a walk in clinic? Doctor's office, or even shouldice for surgery? All (gasp) private for profit enterprises that are funded by OHIP. Ever wanted to be upgraded to a semi private or private room in any hospital? Want cable tv at the hospital? Looking to get eye care? Better have private insurance!! |
So you are proving your own point. There are private options here much as there are in Europe. But don't tell me that Europe has the same type of two tier type system which you seek here in Canada. One that is much closer to the American model, which is a two tier system, than those in Europe |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
I am all for a two tier system of health care, but if you are going to have universal healthcare then you can't say we will pay for people who kill their liver with alcohol but won't pay for those that kill their lungs with cigarettes. |
I agree. Thats why we should pay for everyone or kill the idea of universal healthcare altogether. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by miketg23
So you are proving your own point. There are private options here much as there are in Europe. But don't tell me that Europe has the same type of two tier type system which you seek here in Canada. One that is much closer to the American model, which is a two tier system, than those in Europe |
What i want to see is nothing like an american system. I want to see private companies fight for the right to provide universal public health care. Competition for the government's money in a tendering system. I also want to see the allowance of paying to get faster treatment as long as it does not interfere with the delivery of public medicine.
Look at shouldice. You want your hernia fixed they treat you with much better care than a normal hospital because they are competing for your business and giving you incentive to choose them. The only reason shouldice even exists in ontario is because its been around since before socialist health care. I believe to start up a similar hospital today would be illegal under our laws. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
I agree. Thats why we should pay for everyone or kill the idea of universal healthcare altogether. |
Thats what I was trying to get at before....you either have universal healthcare that treats everyone or you go to a private system. I agree with a two tier system where the rich can get quicker and hell, even better service. If you want to spend your money on your health then go for it. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
Thats what I was trying to get at before....you either have universal healthcare that treats everyone or you go to a private system. I agree with a two tier system where the rich can get quicker and hell, even better service. If you want to spend your money on your health then go for it. |
Yeah but words like choice and efficiency scares pinko commies because that translates into less authoritarian control and more work. Since of course, the government ALWAYS knows better than it's people and that people are entitled to their entitlements whether or not they are actually entitled to them! |
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| miketg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
I agree with a two tier system where the rich can get quicker and hell, even better service. If you want to spend your money on your health then go for it. |
The exact problem with the two tier is not so much the line skipping, but the access to better service. Just as in the states, the poor and working class end up with second rate coverage because the public system can't afford the staff or equipment that the private system and eventually fails those that need it. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by miketg23
The exact problem with the two tier is not so much the line skipping, but the access to better service. Just as in the states, the poor and working class end up with second rate coverage because the public system can't afford the staff or equipment that the private system and eventually fails those that need it. |
Hold on a minute. The states is private based medicine with public access. We are talking about the complete reversal.
This would be a way for those with money to get FASTER (not nec better) health care than those on the public system. Not only would we then not have to pay for them. But additionally their money would be used to HELP PAY FOR THE PUBLIC SYSTEM. A triple win. The rich person gets faster care, the public system doesnt pay for them, and the public system gets even more money from the rich person.
Maybe lefties would feel better about it if we called it "voluntary taxation on the rich?"
We already have two tier medicine in some forms anyways.. And this is ACTUAL two tier because there is no public back up plan for things like optometry, chiropratic care, dentistry, and non GOVERNMENT approved drugs. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by miketg23
The exact problem with the two tier is not so much the line skipping, but the access to better service. Just as in the states, the poor and working class end up with second rate coverage because the public system can't afford the staff or equipment that the private system and eventually fails those that need it. |
I see no problem with keeping a universal system where everyone pays into it, but also have a private system that allows those that wish to spend the extra money for quicker and better services. The government can make it mandatory that any doctors working in the private system must have X amount of hours in the universal system. |
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| Jayx1 |
Rich people already jump the queue. They go to the USA. Why not keep that money here where it can benefit everyone?
Look at what Belinda Stronach, the champion of public health care herself did when she had breast cancer. She went straight to the US for care.
That alone should tell you something. |
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| miketg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
I see no problem with keeping a universal system where everyone pays into it, but also have a private system that allows those that wish to spend the extra money for quicker and better services. The government can make it mandatory that any doctors working in the private system must have X amount of hours in the universal system. |
Forcing the doctors just coming out of school to work anywhere they don't want to will just result in many of them moving to the States |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by miketg23
Forcing the doctors just coming out of school to work anywhere they don't want to will just result in many of them moving to the States |
Alot of them already do. This is because their wages are preset by the government. Nothing would change. In fact its possible that we would be able to retain more doctors this way. |
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| miketg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Alot of them already do. This is because their wages are preset by the government. Nothing would change. In fact its possible that we would be able to retain more doctors this way. |
there will always be more money to be made in the US but to tell doctors they have to work for less in their own country is just asking them to leave. |
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