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Skill vs Talent
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| Fledz |
Here's something I just came across on Boom Jinx myspace. Think what you will of his music, but he's damn good at what he does when you take away biased opinions on music and just focus on what he's trying to achieve. Also seems extremely down to earth and just reading this one blog from 2 years ago (amongst the others) actually made me want to jump back in the chair and make some music. Take a couple of minutes to read it and hopefully it may kick start someone or give another person that little extra push to finish a masterpiece :)
| quote: | I know this is very individual, but one thing that really discouraged me when I was younger was listening to producers that were way ahead of me in terms of quality and experience � their experience reflected in the subjective matter of quality, of course. I have always been ambitious and without getting too sidetracked from what I intend to write about, I do believe being ambitious is necessary to move forward and reach certain levels regardless of what you're doing. There's the occasional odd exception of truly passionate (or obsessive if you will) people who become exceptionally good at what they do and end up being successful without having focused too much on being, well, successful. To be both ambitious and impatient can be very frustrating though. If you genuinely want to sound like your favorite producers and you're in the early stages of learning how to write and produce, you might - like I did - become discouraged by listening to someone whose work is way beyond your current level of quality. My purpose for writing this blog is to attempt to dispel the notion that some people are just born disgustingly skillful, and by doing so I hope to encourage ambitious but impatient beginners.
The truth is very simple really. To become really good at something you need to practice and you need to practice a lot. You simply cannot win skill in the lottery or purchase any genuine shortcuts for a significant amount of money. Music production - as opposed to song writing - is such a technical thing that I would argue it's not directly comparable to naturally talented song writers. There are so many young and incredibly talented song writers out there, but if you think about it there aren't as many super skillful music producers or engineers as there are outstanding song writers. Creative or not, technical things often require a higher level of practice and experience, although some people seem to "catch" things faster than others.
To people on the outside, some of the best producers may appear to have just "acquired" their skills through superior intellect and blessings from higher powers. The truth is that they have all had periods in their lives where they devoted so much time and energy on developing their creative skills that they would have wrecked any marriage and been overqualified for titles such as "nerd" or "loser." Any skills I may have is a result of ridiculous amounts of persistence and an incredible amount of time devoted to fanatical practice. I do not believe it's my destiny to be a music producer. I could have been a photographer by chance and I'm sure I'd be a decent one if I spent as much time doing that as I have doing music.
Remember that everybody was a beginner at some point in time. To maximize your potential you need time. This is a rule without exception.
The reason passion is so immensely important when you want to develop creative talent is because it requires an enormous amount of discipline to go through an awful lot practice. Anybody who's been around a sound designer or music producer who is working will testify it's exciting for a couple of minutes and then you want to blow your brains out because you're hearing the same over, and over, and over again. It requires a lot of passion to maintain that hypnotic-like state creative people enter when they're working. To sit down and duplicate such a state through sheer discipline is nearly impossible.
However, I think it's important to remember that our genetic blueprint comes with certain limitations. I believe - and I'm sure some of you will disagree with me - that contrary to what good parents cleverly tell their children, there's nobody out there who can do anything they want to do if they just put their mind to it. While some people are undoubtedly born more creative than others, everybody has their own unique set of talents. I think a brilliant example of this is people's sense of rhythm. I've seen a 4 year old percussionist on YouTube do stuff I could only dream of doing and I've met people my age who can barely keep a straight beat at 100 beats per minute. Although I am, as a parent, obviously a fan of the saying "you can do anything you want to", it's not always entirely true, is it? It really just brings me back to the fact that you need a genuine passion for what you do to go beyond the ordinary level of absorbing information as a student (which eventually converts itself to skills). I think that weighs heavier than anything remotely related to natural talent. When you compare yourself to people who appear to have a turbo charged development curve compared to you, remember that your passion is most likely to see you through from A to Z no matter how long it takes.
To wrap things up...The producers out there who are extraordinarily talented have not achieved their level of skill primarily through luck or superior genetics. They have dedicated an embarrassing amount of time doing what they love.
�istein Johan Eide aka Boom Jinx |
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?...logId=295174963 |
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| echosystm |
| sure have never heard of this guy lol |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
The people out there with the most skill have practiced music and worked at it from an early age. Practicing music from an early age is not an option available to anyone posting on this board, of course.
;)
It's just like learning a language, you can be twenty or thirty years old and become fluent in a language with a great deal of work, but you will likely never be as good or natural at it as someone who has spoken since it they were very little. I agree that being the very best is not mainly about "inherent talent," but I think it is about something that people our age do not have any control over: whether they had a musical upbringing. |
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| Owsey2008 |
| Read this a while back. I'm a fan of quite a few of his works :) |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
The people out there with the most skill have practiced music and worked at it from an early age. Practicing music from an early age is not an option available to anyone posting on this board, of course.
;)
It's just like learning a language, you can be twenty or thirty years old and become fluent in a language with a great deal of work, but you will likely never be as good or natural at it as someone who has spoken since it they were very little. I agree that being the very best is not mainly about "inherent talent," but I think it is about something that people our age do not have any control over: whether they had a musical upbringing. |
I completely disagree. What you're basically saying is that if you haven't been practicing music since and early age, you will never attain the highest levels. That is absolutely untrue and I can't say I could possibly disagree with it anymore than I do. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
I completely disagree. What you're basically saying is that if you haven't been practicing music since and early age, you will never attain the highest levels. That is absolutely untrue and I can't say I could possibly disagree with it anymore than I do. |
Got any counterexamples? Someone who is just an absolutely amazing musician (*not* just "good" or "very good") who took it up when they were 18+? I think we may be thinking of different standards when we are talking about "highest levels." |
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| EgosXII |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
I completely disagree. What you're basically saying is that if you haven't been practicing music since and early age, you will never attain the highest levels. That is absolutely untrue and I can't say I could possibly disagree with it anymore than I do. |
+1
that's pretty silly imo jbj.. can't teach an old dog new tricks etc as a theory is so lolworthy...
plus, it pretty much goes against the whole point of the blog:
it takes hard work, but is going to be achievable... eventually, and with the right motivation.
i really liked the blog, goes with my personal belief/expectations about production, and is what i always tell people thinking about starting production :)
just jump in, and work hard.. no matter what you do it's not gonna happen overnight, but it will happen if you just DO IT instead of thinking about doing it. :p |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| I'm not saying that you can't be good at music or write great music if you take it up later. I am saying you will never be Mozart, Debussy, Miles Davis, or even BT or Aphex Twin just by starting to practice at age twenty and practicing a lot. The idea that you can be is just a pleasant delusion people like to tell themselves. |
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| Fledz |
You won't with that attitude.
It's like when people say "Oh you won't be a CEO of a large, multi-national corporation one day", and I simply follow it up with "According to who? Fate doesn't exist. There's no such thing as a set path. If you don't believe you have the ability to do it, then you never will be". Granted it's not quite the same but it's close enough. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| I don't care what you think of my "attitude" or emotional state, I care about the facts. So what about those counterexamples? Anyone who is the musical equal of the guys I listed, who just oozes "talent" in practically everything they make and started music at 18+? |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
Trying to be a CEO is not something that reshapes your brain structure like music and language acquisition do. It takes skill, certainly, but it is not something for which children have an enormous neurological advantage like language and music.
;) |
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| EgosXII |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
I don't care what you think of my "attitude" or emotional state, I care about the facts. So what about those counterexamples? Anyone who is the musical equal of the guys I listed, who just oozes "talent" in practically everything they make and started music at 18+? |
if you care about the facts you must have proof...?
i think it would be an advantage to be taught from birth, but like the blog was saying, production especially is not really the same as music anyway...
production is a technical skill... i don't think having a basic understanding of an instrument has that much to do with being a good producer
oh and there are a number of examples... i'm pretty sure thom yorke has no training whatsoever, and is a brilliant singer, pianist and guitarist... and has made an album thru mostly digital means...
i think the variables in your suggestions are HUGE anyway... there are simply way more musicians who have been in it since they were kids than there are people who have come into it later...
this doesn't mean that people coming into it later CAN'T do it, it just means they probably don't have as much inclination to do it... as in, they probably don't want to... not as in they can't literally..
pretty big leap to claim that learning music is like learning language in the first place, and then to assume that you have to learn music from childhood...? |
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