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Imac 24" 2.93ghz (pg. 2)
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Energy_3
I have never really got into the whole multiple HD thing, until reading about it. so what you mean is that I run an external drive for the OS is that correct and time machine??? |
No. OS runs on the internal drive, always. You can run an OS from an external drive, but it isn't always supported or recommended. I do this with boot camp and a secondary Windows installation on my Mac Pro, but that is another conversation and not what you want to do.
Example:
Lets say you had two external drives, then you have 3 drives total.
1. Internal - Runs OS.
2. External 1 - Data (Logic projects and Audio data)
3. External 2 - Backup - Data from both Drive 1 and 2 backed up to this drive.
The advantage to this configuration is that the each drive may perform better because the external data drive (drive 2) is used for streaming audio files, thereby freeing up the OS drive (drive 1) for any disk I/O only for running the OS.
The second external drive (drive 3) is really never touched, as Time Machine backs up your data to this drive automatically. You never really think about it.
The second advantage is that, if you ever have to reinstall the OS, you can do so without fear of loosing your data, because you only do the Erase & Install on the OS drive. Your data remains intact on the second drive. You must be careful to only store project data on the external drive (drive 1) for this to work. You'll still need to reinstall any software after your OS installation in this case. Logic projects are entirely self-contained, so this works out great.
Keep in mind that any performance advantages on the second drive are realized only if you stream lots of audio files. Big sample libraries and DFD samplers benefit from this greatly. Also you'll need the drive connected via high-speed interface, preferably FireWire 800 or eSATA.
Also keep in mind that the internal drives will always be faster than external drives. This type of configuration is only recommended in a case where you cannot install additional drives internally. An iMac obviously cannot have additional drives added internally, so you are forced to use external. This is one of the advantages of a desktop machine, as you can install additional internal drives. The Mac Pro has 4 internal drive bays for extra drives. |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Thats what we use - aint cheap buts it's good.
Blueray should soon be a viable option though. |
Well I have a server with a RAID 5 4 disk array for my primary backup, so thats pretty safe, but I like to back that up to another disk and turn off/unplug it so that I have a disconnected backup just in case. |
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| palm |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alekos
Get a copy of DiskWarrior and make sure to run it weekly.
Partition the HD is always a huge plus.
Hope it helps
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what the hell is that good for? |
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| Cryogen |
| quote: | Originally posted by johncannons1
i got a Western digital 1 TB external. it doesnt cooperate with time machine. |
Is it formatted HFS+ ? |
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| Energy_3 |
Ok, i understand. Now one more thing, if i am to run VST applications i to would store them on the interal drive along with the OS yes? And, leave all the externals to one for back up, and the second for my tracks and samples etc etc.
"sounds like a good plan" |
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| Eric J |
| Correct. Software Instruments & Effects are always installed on the OS drive because in most cases they have to be installed in specific folders on the OS drive or they wont work. In addition, if you ever have to reinstall your OS you'll have to reinstall the Software Instruments and Effects anyway. Be sure you store your install files and serial numbers on the data drive as well so they are easy to find upon any reinstall. |
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| Energy_3 |
| i just sent you a PM mate. thanks again! |
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| Energy_3 |
a dilema, if i am to use the only firewire 800 port on the imac for an external drive to help with transferring of data then i will be limited to a USB audio interface which isnt a prob i think. I look at the transfer rates of data for 400 & 800 firewire and besides the 800 ther looks like no significant differ between the 400 and a USB transfer rate.
SO this is where I am at, do I utiliz my only firewire 800 port for an exteral drive or do i use it for a firewire interface? what is the best option. and will firewire 400 run prob free on a firewire 800 port?
thanks again |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Energy_3
a dilema, if i am to use the only firewire 800 port on the imac for an external drive to help with transferring of data then i will be limited to a USB audio interface which isnt a prob i think. I look at the transfer rates of data for 400 & 800 firewire and besides the 800 ther looks like no significant differ between the 400 and a USB transfer rate.
SO this is where I am at, do I utiliz my only firewire 800 port for an exteral drive or do i use it for a firewire interface? what is the best option. and will firewire 400 run prob free on a firewire 800 port?
thanks again |
Well, you situation is one of compromise. Ideally, you want all drives and audio interfaces connected via the fastest bus possible. On an iMac, you only have one firewire port and several USB ports. So what we need to do then is rank the busses in order of speed and place the most important items on the fastest bus.
I feel that it is more important to have your Audio Interface on the fastest bus possible, because the amount of data throughput on that device will almost always far exceed your maximum potential throughput from any external disk. The only exception to this rule are massive sound libraries such as EWQL, and even these will run in memory unless you turn on the DFD option.
SO in your case I recommend this setup:
1. Internal drive on internal interface (this is already done obviously).
2. Audio Interface on FireWire port
3. External drives on USB.
I don't recommend daisy-chaining FireWire devices because you need 100% of the available FireWire bandwidth in order for your audio interface to perform at its best.
USB isn't the fastest, but it should be fine for most disk-based applications. You shouldn't be streaming THAT much audio from an external disk as to overwhelm the USB bus, so this should work out fine. This configuration is as much as easy disaster recovery as it is about performance. You are not going to get near the performance out of an external disk as you would out of an internal disk, but it should perform fine for your needs. The performance gains in this configuration are mostly about splitting up the disk workload among two separate disks, meaning that each individual disk can be dedicated to its particular task. OS disk to OS disk I/O, Data disk for audio streaming and project files.
As an aside, this is why people who can afford it invest in towers. The fastest available buses currently available in modern computers are PCI-X followed closely by PCIe. The Mac Pro, for example, not only includes a 16x speed PCI-X slot, but 3 PCIe slots and 4 drive bays on a SATA backplane, which is the fastest available SATA bus. Combine that with server-class, multi-core processors on a server-class Intel motherboard, front-side bus speed in excess of 1 Ghz and server-class, fully buffered memory, and you get one of the most powerful music workstations available on the market today. You can certainly build a PC with similar specifications.
If you really need high track counts with low latency and multiple instances of CPU hungry software, then you really have no other choice. Nothing beats a tower in terms of high performance, high expandability workstations, PC or Mac. That being said, an iMac in the configuration described above should be plenty for most producers. |
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| Energy_3 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Well, you situation is one of compromise. Ideally, you want all drives and audio interfaces connected via the fastest bus possible. On an iMac, you only have one firewire port and several USB ports. So what we need to do then is rank the busses in order of speed and place the most important items on the fastest bus.
I feel that it is more important to have your Audio Interface on the fastest bus possible, because the amount of data throughput on that device will almost always far exceed your maximum potential throughput from any external disk. The only exception to this rule are massive sound libraries such as EWQL, and even these will run in memory unless you turn on the DFD option.
SO in your case I recommend this setup:
1. Internal drive on internal interface (this is already done obviously).
2. Audio Interface on FireWire port
3. External drives on USB.
I don't recommend daisy-chaining FireWire devices because you need 100% of the available FireWire bandwidth in order for your audio interface to perform at its best.
USB isn't the fastest, but it should be fine for most disk-based applications. You shouldn't be streaming THAT much audio from an external disk as to overwhelm the USB bus, so this should work out fine. This configuration is as much as easy disaster recovery as it is about performance. You are not going to get near the performance out of an external disk as you would out of an internal disk, but it should perform fine for your needs. The performance gains in this configuration are mostly about splitting up the disk workload among two separate disks, meaning that each individual disk can be dedicated to its particular task. OS disk to OS disk I/O, Data disk for audio streaming and project files.
As an aside, this is why people who can afford it invest in towers. The fastest available buses currently available in modern computers are PCI-X followed closely by PCIe. The Mac Pro, for example, not only includes a 16x speed PCI-X slot, but 3 PCIe slots and 4 drive bays on a SATA backplane, which is the fastest available SATA bus. Combine that with server-class, multi-core processors on a server-class Intel motherboard, front-side bus speed in excess of 1 Ghz and server-class, fully buffered memory, and you get one of the most powerful music workstations available on the market today. You can certainly build a PC with similar specifications.
If you really need high track counts with low latency and multiple instances of CPU hungry software, then you really have no other choice. Nothing beats a tower in terms of high performance, high expandability workstations, PC or Mac. That being said, an iMac in the configuration described above should be plenty for most producers. |
Eric thanks for the great information mate really helped me out.
I will go firewire then for my audio interface then so thats sorted. and, go USB for external drives etc, as the lacie offers the option of USB as well.
I did look into building a PC but the cost steered me away and i really want Logic this time round. I think if my productions endup being ear friendly lol, and once i move pass my learning phase i will definitely upgrade to a Power Mac thats for sure!
thanks again. |
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| kitphillips |
If you ge the new motu ultralight then you have the option of using usb or firewire. Might give you more flexibility and its a very decent interface...
Look and see if the Imac has an esata connection as well, as this is best for hard disks and will free up a port. |
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| DJ RANN |
Excellent advice from Eric
I stonrgly suggest anyone reading this that what he has described about drive configuation:
1. Internal - Runs OS.
2. External 1 - Data (Logic projects and Audio data)
3. External 2 - Backup - Data from both Drive 1 and 2 backed up to this drive
is the ideal setup for any small studio - at the studio I work at we do exactly the same setup apart from go to quantum DLT tape backup for stage three, then wipe the external backup drive after project delivery for reuse later.
Energy - the only main difference between USB (2.0) and firewire is FW has a faster sustained rate of transfer (even though peak speeds are basically equal) and it is a peer to peer system where USB is master slave. Therefore Firewire is better for interfaces where a large bandwidth of date is transmitted and received over a sustained period.
You got the last egenration of imac, which i think means you have both a FW400 socket, a FW800 socket and several USBs.
Get a FW400 audio interface, a FW800 drive for your data, and everything else including the timemachine backup on the USB.
I can recommend the Echo audiofire range - they are incredibly good sounding and good value interfaces, which use the same chips as much more expensive interfaces such as RME.
Couple of things with FW devices:
1,Always, eject the FW device before removing - it's not like USB where most times you can just pull it out.
2, NEVER, (and I mean NEVER), use them without the power supply, even if they manual says it's ok. You would not believe the amount of times I've seen a FW drive or interface go pop from hotswapping without the power supply. The other thing is that 99% of times, the FW bridge is the thing that is the weakness with FW, not the device itself. If you accidently trip over or pull out the FW cable with the PSU plugged in, you are far less likely to have damage to the FW device - without the PSU plugged in, you've got a very good chance of killing the device.
Just ask Palm ;) |
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