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Is a hardware mixer going to make a difference? (pg. 3)
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
My opinion - no, it's not essential. In the right hands, high end equipment can work magic, but in the wrong hands it will be a waste of money and space. My personal opinion is that you won't hear a several hundred or thousand dollar difference by simply running your mixes through a second-hand Soundcraft board (I used prosumer Soundcraft, Allen & Heath, and Mackie boards for years, mostly for live audio, but also in my studio). I'm not sure what your budget is, but most of the prosumer Soundcraft boards are probably not going to do anything very noticeable to your sound anyway, other than add a little color if you run it through the preamps.
That said, sometimes just having an new piece of gear can lead to new workflows, experimenting in a way that you wouldn't have thought of in its absence, reinvigorate your passion for making music, get you out of a slump, etc. But, the bottom line is that I don't think it's essential to have a hardware mixer, unless perhaps, you're multi-tracking numerous live instruments simultaneously. |
...and the quest for a pro sound continues... |
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| rulzz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ry Thomas
True but a good one will cost 0000's |
depends what are you after if want to run whole mix through for mastering purposes than yes a really nice reel to reel is essential but if you want to warm up parts separately say keys/ synths bass etc. and then layer it you don't really need a very expensive reel to reel actually for this purpose you can even use an odd old cassette deck |
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| lcrqq |
I'm not sure if this will help at all, but here are two clips of the same mix of one of my tunes. The first is analog summed through an SSL 4048E series console. The second is just an ITB summed mix.
Analog:
http://soundcloud.com/lcrqq/cochitta-clip-analog
Digital:
http://soundcloud.com/lcrqq/cochitta-clip-digital
(I guess this forum doesn't allow the soundcloud player.. sorry for the links)
Some levels are a bit off between the two mixes as the console's faders aren't perfectly calibrated. The big difference I hear is in the low end. I think there are ups and downs to both sides of it. I mean if you do have the console you have to go through the hassle of recalling it every time you want to mix a new tune. With digital, you just open it. But I believe there is definitely a difference between analog summing and digital. It's comparing real circuitry with electrical signals combining through op amps compared to digital 1's and 0's being summed. It's pretty much the same debate as softsynths vs hardware synths. Software is getting veryyyy good but it will only get you 99% of the way there :P.
But I definitely agree with what Cryo said in that any new piece of gear leads to new inspiration.
Just be careful getting an old school mixer off craigslist or ebay as you might have to recap the whole damn thing :P |
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| Wave Alchemy |
This is completely my own opinion and from experience.
You may notice a difference in sound when using an outboard mixing console, especially when driving the faders (saturation) but it depends hugely on the type of desk you buy, the quality of converters and the way in which you work! You would obviously need to look into all of this a lot deeper.
A mixing desk really holds its own when working completely 'out of the box' with outboard eqs, comps etc. This is when you get what people refer to as 'magic' and 'that analogue sound'
If you want to dirty up or give your mixes some edge try buying a couple of outboard pre-amps and a nice compressor and drive some of your softsynths through them.
Summing mixers could be looked into but I personally dont think they are worth the money for the very slight difference they make.
Also consider getting a nice analgue synth. Just one gritty analogue synth in a mix full of software can really bring a mix to life. |
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| Owsey2008 |
| quote: | Originally posted by lcrqq
I'm not sure if this will help at all, but here are two clips of the same mix of one of my tunes. The first is analog summed through an SSL 4048E series console. The second is just an ITB summed mix.
Analog:
http://soundcloud.com/lcrqq/cochitta-clip-analog
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This sounds very good. |
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| DigiNut |
The short answer is no. The only really interesting thing about analog mixers is what happens when you overdrive them (i.e. push them above 0 dB). Analog gear can handle that, digital can't.
Still, your money would be better spent on more specialized gear like compressors, reverb, delay, EQ. They'll all colour the sound the same way an analog mixer does but you can actually, well, do stuff with them.
An outboard mixer is only really a necessity if you've got a massive arsenal of other gear that you're trying to mash up. |
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| kitphillips |
I ing hate it when people talk about "the pro sound" as though there was some final objective endpoint for your musical skills where every track you make will be an instant hit and played worldwide, just because you have "pro sound".
Its almost always used heaps by people who are struggling with their productions, getting frustrated and don't really know whats wrong.
To answer the question, no a mixing desk will not improve your summing, it might be an interesting experiment to improve your workflow. Its always good to try new ways of working, but don't expect it to actually directly change the quality of your sound. |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rebel Brown
Kris Menace? |
Yes yes! |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by lcrqq
I'm not sure if this will help at all, but here are two clips of the same mix of one of my tunes. The first is analog summed through an SSL 4048E series console. The second is just an ITB summed mix.
Analog:
http://soundcloud.com/lcrqq/cochitta-clip-analog
Digital:
http://soundcloud.com/lcrqq/cochitta-clip-digital
(I guess this forum doesn't allow the soundcloud player.. sorry for the links)
Some levels are a bit off between the two mixes as the console's faders aren't perfectly calibrated. The big difference I hear is in the low end. I think there are ups and downs to both sides of it. I mean if you do have the console you have to go through the hassle of recalling it every time you want to mix a new tune. With digital, you just open it. But I believe there is definitely a difference between analog summing and digital. It's comparing real circuitry with electrical signals combining through op amps compared to digital 1's and 0's being summed. It's pretty much the same debate as softsynths vs hardware synths. Software is getting veryyyy good but it will only get you 99% of the way there :P.
But I definitely agree with what Cryo said in that any new piece of gear leads to new inspiration.
Just be careful getting an old school mixer off craigslist or ebay as you might have to recap the whole damn thing :P |
Cheers for that. |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
An outboard mixer is only really a necessity if you've got a massive arsenal of other gear that you're trying to mash up. |
No I sold most of my hardware when we moved house as I thought it would distract me from the chore of renovating the house. The house is finished so I this time when for a DAW setup with only 2 hardware synths.
Listening to my old mixes they sound more OPEN, thats the key word. I think using the term 'pro sound' was a mistake by me.
Now I'm hoping I will get to grips with the DAW and get the mix where I want it to be. It maybe that I just have'nt worked out how to mix properly with it.
My mixes sound great on the monitors, but then after running them through the TRACS deluxe limiter they sound less spacial and deep.
If I dont turn up the input gain on the tracs limiter, forum people say its too quiet, not enough impact. If I turn it up though beyond about 2OCLOCK the sound stratrs to get tight and squashed.
Ive not tried the TRACS presets as to be honest I used hardware compressors for years and feel I know what Im doing.
Maybe I should use the TRACS OPTO COMPRESSOR to get the track loud enough and then either use the brick wall limter sparringly or there is a setting - 'SET TO 0DB OUTPUT' for the chain which is not related to the limiter, so I could not use the limiter.
I know loud is'nt everything and I've read Biob Katz on this, but the bottom line is on another forum people get really loud mixes that are still nice and spacey and some of them just use FL and one synth (Nexus).
I have no problem editing the sounds so they are correct and full but it's the end limiting that seems to be the killer.
AGAIN I DIDNT GET THIS PROBLEM WITH MY OLD SETUP SO IT IS'NT MY EARS OR LACK OF KNOW HOW.
I am at loss, but I will solve it, hopefuly with your input.
The mixer is probably a red herring, it's the limiting / finalisation I need to get right.
BTW - Yes I will use a proper mastering engineer, but none the less I want to be able to get it as good as I think is possible. A mastering engineer I would use if a label wanted. |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by Wave Alchemy
This is completely my own opinion and from experience.
You may notice a difference in sound when using an outboard mixing console, especially when driving the faders (saturation) but it depends hugely on the type of desk you buy, the quality of converters and the way in which you work! You would obviously need to look into all of this a lot deeper.
A mixing desk really holds its own when working completely 'out of the box' with outboard eqs, comps etc. This is when you get what people refer to as 'magic' and 'that analogue sound'
If you want to dirty up or give your mixes some edge try buying a couple of outboard pre-amps and a nice compressor and drive some of your softsynths through them.
Summing mixers could be looked into but I personally dont think they are worth the money for the very slight difference they make.
Also consider getting a nice analgue synth. Just one gritty analogue synth in a mix full of software can really bring a mix to life. |
That all makes perfect sense.
I think what I'd love is to sum thru a TL Audio TL4 valve desk but my wife wont let me spend that kinda dosh!
I have an old Moog but need to get it midi'd really. |
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| Cryogen |
SOS has an interesting article on this. Make of it what you will.
Link |
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