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The defeat? (pg. 2)
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| tubularbills |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ian
yeah but so is a pokemon one :p |
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: LololOL |
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| R!CH |
| wow this thread is a goldmine of false dichotomy :eyespop: |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
wow this thread is a goldmine of false dichotomy :eyespop: |
Please do enlighten me, o learned one.
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
Unlike the overturning of some previous empires, 'the war' is being fought economically rather than physically. |
I forgot to mention there that developing countries often have to deal with more corruption than established countries. However, corruption is generally more efficient than bureaucracy and excessive legality. |
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| Dj Nacht |
That winnebago story destroys me everytime...
What I really love about our system is how you can buy yourself out of anything. A few years back I had acquired enough points to make me loose my license 3X over but money and my lawyer made all those points dissapear. |
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| R!CH |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
Please do enlighten me, o learned one. |
let's start at the top... defeat. who are we fighting again? and for what? the only people who place emphasis on this struggle to remain the largest economy in the world are those who watch flag-waving, sky-is-falling cable news talk shows. what is the value of having "the number 1 economy" versus being second, or third, or tenth? what bearing does that have on the general happiness and well-being of you and your neighbors? if you released corporate america from its restraints as it is today, the middle class would shrivel even faster. you would have an investment class, service worker class and a prison class. anything that could be outsourced would still be outsourced because union or not, the standard of living in china and india is still 1/3rd that of america. at the far extreme end of the scale, you're looking at dubai. a land with no corporate tax and a slave class building everything. look at them now. a bleak, half-empty disneyland for millionaires, prisons filled with failed businessmen and enslaved workers throwing themselves from the skyscrapers they're building because life is hell.
if you would trade the comforts of america afforded to you by rule of law for the glittery statistics of china's economy, then by all means go for it. i'll tell you though, living in china is not good for your health. the air is poisoned, the water is poisoned, hell even the products are poisoned. you are censored, you are watched, the body of knowledge you can learn from is censored, justice is bought and sold openly and your freedom can be taken from you just as easy as your wallet. i prefer my governments, business communities and neighbors behaving as if gross negligence, malpractice, deceit and bodily harm have consequence. i prefer rule of law as the standard even if the cost is a frivolous lawsuit 1% of the time.
that's not the problem. the problem with america is political will to do what needs to be done. the root of that problem is the lobbyist/pac and gerrymandering. the lobbyist controls congress by showering campaign contributions and slandering the opposition. gerrymandering draws up districts based on sociopolitical lines, which allows the political body to become less moderate and more ideological. the media and society pick up on all this and an uncivil and cynical political climate ensues. now you have a lawmaking body that can't and won't change the status quo. frivolous lawsuits cost america $200 billion a year. a drop in the bucket compared to what an incapable lawmaking body costs us year over year. can you imagine a debate on the floor of congress over dissolving our privatized prison industrial complex? wow, the lawyers and lobbyists would rush the halls by the thousands. there are over 34,000 lobbyists in congress. that's 78 per congressman. as former politicians and aides, they know how to control the new guy in town. we live in highly dynamic and ever shifting times, yet our laws remain pretty much unchanged until something catastrophic occurs. even then you have about half an election cycle before political will on that issue wanes. |
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| Clovis |
| You know for every example of some dumb suing because he spilled obviously hot coffee on himself or using a chainsaw in a jacuzzi there are countless examples of the law working to improve things. I'm glad there is an additional check to hold companies and individuals accountable for their actions because the government can't do it all. |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
let's start at the top... defeat. who are we fighting again? |
Every large nation wants supremacy, though not always overtly.
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
and for what? the only people who place emphasis on this struggle to remain the largest economy in the world are those who watch flag-waving, sky-is-falling cable news talk shows. what is the value of having "the number 1 economy" versus being second, or third, or tenth? what bearing does that have on the general happiness and well-being of you and your neighbors? |
This is not about being the number one economy in the world, it is about continuation of current living conditions. Perhaps you see it as hard to fathom, but it is possible that America et al. may one day reach the state that South Africa finds itself in now, albeit via a very different set of circumstances. I use this loosely because I'm not fully appraised of the situation, but isn't Detroit completely ed now? Imagine Europe, UK, Canada, Australia and the US going that way.
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
if you released corporate america from its restraints as it is today, the middle class would shrivel even faster. you would have an investment class, service worker class and a prison class. |
Exactly. Hence my assertion that the litigious nature of Western society (don't make this about America, it's not about you) is almost irreversible.
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
if you would trade the comforts of america afforded to you by rule of law for the glittery statistics of china's economy, then by all means go for it. i'll tell you though, living in china is not good for your health. the air is poisoned, the water is poisoned, hell even the products are poisoned. you are censored, you are watched, the body of knowledge you can learn from is censored, justice is bought and sold openly and your freedom can be taken from you just as easy as your wallet. i prefer my governments, business communities and neighbors behaving as if gross negligence, malpractice, deceit and bodily harm have consequence. |
Yes, I'm well aware of that. I have two or three good stories about the gross disregard for humanity or the law in China, but my point remains that they march inexorably forward. As I said in my original post: "their citizens may be less well cared for or valued than their Western counterparts." This was a deliberate understatement.
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
that's not the problem. the problem with america is political will to do what needs to be done. the root of that problem is the lobbyist/pac and gerrymandering. the lobbyist controls congress by showering campaign contributions and slandering the opposition. gerrymandering draws up districts based on sociopolitical lines, which allows the political body to become less moderate and more ideological. the media and society pick up on all this and an uncivil and cynical political climate ensues. now you have a lawmaking body that can't and won't change the status quo. frivolous lawsuits cost america $200 billion a year. a drop in the bucket compared to what an incapable lawmaking body costs us year over year. can you imagine a debate on the floor of congress over dissolving our privatized prison industrial complex? wow, the lawyers and lobbyists would rush the halls by the thousands. there are over 34,000 lobbyists in congress. that's 78 per congressman. as former politicians and aides, they know how to control the new guy in town. we live in highly dynamic and ever shifting times, yet our laws remain pretty much unchanged until something catastrophic occurs. even then you have about half an election season before political will on that issue wanes. |
Again, why are you making this exclusively about America? Oh, that's right, because the world revolves around your country.
So, where were those false dichotomies? Or were you just throwing faux-intelligent terms around again to give us some sort of false sense of your authority? |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
You know for every example of some dumb suing because he spilled obviously hot coffee on himself or using a chainsaw in a jacuzzi there are countless examples of the law working to improve things. I'm glad there is an additional check to hold companies and individuals accountable for their actions because the government can't do it all. |
As I said though, these kinds of examples are minority problems.
It's more so corporate 'arse-covering', as we call it in my industry, that is the problem. The director of our company has been a builder for 25 years and has never had a claim or misdemeanour levelled against him. The company has done work for government departments, hotels and all manner of quality clients during his tenure, and yet it took him almost a year to become a licensed builder in Western Australia under new guidelines.
Never mind the fact that we've been doing work in Western Australia for the better part of a decade or that the business has had such a long history; the government made us provide financial details, references and many more forms of paperwork. The application was knocked back several times because they didn't believe the company was financially stable (it's geared to look this way on purpose for tax reasons). I fully understand that this sort of thing is put in place to prevent the wrong people from entering the profession, but it has gone too far. |
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| R!CH |
| i take from your insulting tone that you're not after a real education, but to watch yourself toot your own horn. my mistake. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
You know for every example of some dumb suing because he spilled obviously hot coffee on himself or using a chainsaw in a jacuzzi there are countless examples of the law working to improve things. I'm glad there is an additional check to hold companies and individuals accountable for their actions because the government can't do it all. |
That's not a valid excuse for a broken system though. As humans we try and aim for perfection, we don't get something 90% right and then call it a day. |
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| Banora |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
Currently, we live in an age where a person can sue Winnebago for not informing them that one can't make a cup of tea in the back while absent from the driver's seat. |
:wtf:
Please tell me that is an exaggeration... |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
i take from your insulting tone that you're not after a real education, but to watch yourself toot your own horn. my mistake. |
No, I'm trying to dislodge you from your horse. You trumpeted about false dichotomies, then in your second post actually confirmed and reinforced the very two sides I originally laid out.
Yes, you are correct. I don't want an 'education' from you. If I wanted that I would go to someone who actually has something to teach me, not a person who thinks they do. In using the term 'faux-intelligent', I was referring to your claims in the car thread that I used ad hominem and strawman arguments, when I actually did nothing of the sort. I tend not to respect people who use words without understanding their meaning.
Also, I don't really want you in this thread unless you're going to contribute to the original discussion topic. You've already done that, so if that's all you have, you can off now. |
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