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State of the Union (pg. 7)
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Raise your hand if you saw the Barack Obama card coming. 
Clearly something called the "Peace Prize" and a Nobel Prize in Economics are based on the same criterion for scholarship in the social sciences. |
Was talking about Al Gore actually. It would have been too obvious to mention Obama.
| quote: | | Again, if you can't debate the merits of arguments made by the opposition, why are you discussing politics? |
What's to debate? The Democrats have been in control of the economy and crafting budgets since 2006 when they took control of Congress. They are not doing anything to actually, really stimulate job growth; throwing out a few temporary peanuts every now and then doesn't count. Everything has got worse in the past year, and blaming Bush doesn't work anymore.
| quote: | | Defensive? I don't think so. Annoyed that you still don't get it? Yeah, probably. And angry at Obama for trying to placate those that still don't get it? Yeah, definitely. |
What don't I get? See... this is the type of elitism that is so damaging. The American people are just too dumb to know what's best for them, right? It takes real intellectuals like Obama (and you based on how I'm reading this) to show them the way. Because, if they could only grasp the concepts as you brianiacs do, they'd understand. Injecting money into the economy that has just been siphoned from the economy is not how to create jobs. Legislation's not the probelm, the slow mind of the citizen is. Right? What you don't get, because you clearly have no actual business experience, is that anyone who successfully starts a business, and creates jobs through rising profits, will quickly become a member of the evil $250K Club. Offering an $8000 tax break so a business owner will spend $40K to hire a new employee isn't how it works, chief. The financial speculation he rails against provides the investment capital for those small businesses and entrepreneurs. If no one has incentives to excel, and risk-taking becomes punished, small businesses won't appear and grow.
| quote: | | I'm not embarrassed for supporting Barack Obama as candidate or President, and I think he had a very good first year. |
Total disconnect from reality here. You are like the grad student who got an A on a term paper, but doesn't understand how it's real world application doesn't work... but still believes that if I just pay attention to your footnotes I'll get it. Obama has had a horrible first year. His approval has sunk to the lowest percentage of any president after the first year (now 46% in last week's CBS poll), and a staggering -22% differential in approve vs. disapprove from when he was elected. Every one of his major agenda items lacks a majority support. Did you not just see what happened in Massachusetts? New Jersey? Virginia?
| quote: | | But he's squandering the momentum by courting moderate Republicans who clearly don't give two s about health care. And yeah, that pisses me off. Olympia Snowe is now in control of whether health care becomes a reality. We've come this far, and we're going to be held captive by mythologies and a messaging meme on Massachusetts being a referendum on health care? It's absurd. |
No, he's squandering momentum by co-opting legislation crafting to radicals Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. And, by forcing moderate members of his own party to vote with him when their constituents back home don't support the agenda items. It's funny to hear you say Republicans don't give 2 s about health care; they have had several proposals rebuffed and not even considered, after Obama assured them he'd consider all ideas. People aren't even seeing the ing bills to make a decision on, until Reid tosses them out there to be voted on at 2:00 a.m. on a Saturday. What YOU don't get is that everyone from Rebublicans, Independants, and Democrats want reform... but not the kind that is being presented. But you're whole premise is that what's being offered is the best (why?) and to disagree with that equates to "not giving 2 s". Please.
| quote: | | I'd love to see Obama use some of his political capital - which is considerable - to get the most progressive piece of legislation since 1964 passed through Congress. And then millions of people can purchase health insurance, coverage can be expanded, and government can go back to being ineffective in addressing some other burning issue. |
Can purchase, or will be FORCED to purchase, otherwise face massive fines and/or jail time? Let's not mince words. Yeah his political capital is so considerable, he couldn't sway Massachusetts voters who are registered as Democrats 3.5 to 1 to keep a Democrat in Kennedy's seat. He's 0-4 now in using his political capital to sway (Mass., VA, NJ, Olympics). Governing against the will of the people will finish off the little political capital he has left. Dude, you are so entrenched in your Beltway cocoon it's scary. |
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| Schadenfreude |
:p |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
No, he's squandering momentum by co-opting legislation crafting to radicals Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. And, by forcing moderate members of his own party to vote with him when their constituents back home don't support the agenda items. |
You seems to not understand the concept of Representative Democracy like we have here in this fine Republic, The United States of America. ;)
These people were elected on the basis that they will make the right decision for the majority of the people that live in the districts they represent. Even if its a one person majority, they were still elected with the intention to legislate on the ideas and principals in which they ran on.
If thats not how the people like it, well then vote them out of office at the next election, but tough luck if you don't like it while they are there. Thats who the people of their district voted for and thats what they will get.
Welcome to America, if you don't like it you can get the out. |
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| Moongoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
What don't I get? See... this is the type of elitism that is so damaging. The American people are just too dumb to know what's best for them, right? It takes real intellectuals like Obama (and you based on how I'm reading this) to show them the way. Because, if they could only grasp the concepts as you brianiacs do, they'd understand. Injecting money into the economy that has just been siphoned from the economy is not how to create jobs. Legislation's not the probelm, the slow mind of the citizen is. Right? What you don't get, because you clearly have no actual business experience, is that anyone who successfully starts a business, and creates jobs through rising profits, will quickly become a member of the evil $250K Club. Offering an $8000 tax break so a business owner will spend $40K to hire a new employee isn't how it works, chief. The financial speculation he rails against provides the investment capital for those small businesses and entrepreneurs. If no one has incentives to excel, and risk-taking becomes punished, small businesses won't appear and grow. |
In general people dont know whats best for them, not just americans. And sadly (for you) yes, it takes intelectuals, smart people, educated people, elite if you want to call them that to make the right calls for the rest of them. I dont want a plumber in charge of the economy, i want someone who knows whats going on. The plumbers common sense of whats best wont work very well when its time to make a choice that will effect a mass of people.
On to the second point if i remember the debate correctly that 250k that youre so upset about is not the amount of money that the business brings in but the amount you yourself earn. And if i would agree that taxing a business that brings in more than 250k a year would be ridiculous taxing an individual who brings in more than 250 a year is perfectly reasonable. Also youre not making sense further on as well but ill touch on that tomorrow since im to sleepy to correctly understand what youre actually on about.
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Total disconnect from reality here. You are like the grad student who got an A on a term paper, but doesn't understand how it's real world application doesn't work... but still believes that if I just pay attention to your footnotes I'll get it. Obama has had a horrible first year. His approval has sunk to the lowest percentage of any president after the first year (now 46% in last week's CBS poll), and a staggering -22% differential in approve vs. disapprove from when he was elected. Every one of his major agenda items lacks a majority support. Did you not just see what happened in Massachusetts? New Jersey? Virginia? |
How about republicans loosing a seat that hasnt been held by a democrat since the civil war...that has got to hurt and has to mean something as well. And everyone of his agendas lacks majority support? Seriously? Because i could name a few that are very popular.
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
No, he's squandering momentum by co-opting legislation crafting to radicals Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. And, by forcing moderate members of his own party to vote with him when their constituents back home don't support the agenda items. It's funny to hear you say Republicans don't give 2 s about health care; they have had several proposals rebuffed and not even considered, after Obama assured them he'd consider all ideas. People aren't even seeing the ing bills to make a decision on, until Reid tosses them out there to be voted on at 2:00 a.m. on a Saturday. What YOU don't get is that everyone from Rebublicans, Independants, and Democrats want reform... but not the kind that is being presented. But you're whole premise is that what's being offered is the best (why?) and to disagree with that equates to "not giving 2 s". Please. |
Seriously, lay off the drugs. Peslosi and Reid radicals? What have they done that is remotely radical? On their best of days they are at most centre left. Its a shame to see that such a shift has occurred in american politics that ideas that barely qualify as liberal everywhere else get qualified as radical in the us.
And yes the republicans had several "brilliant" proposals for healthcare. They proposed everything that they could that would increase profits for the health insurance companies, never really gave a thought about making it more available or more affordable to the general public. Vote on the bill at 2am... that's what you get for delaying the bill by any means available (everyone remember the leaked memo on how to stall the bill).
And yes people dont like whats being presented now...they did like what was being presented in the beginning though...before it was butchered and watered down to appease the republicans for some hope of bipartisanship. Which was doomed to fail from the beginning anyway...the dems should know by now that thats not the game the republicans play
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Can purchase, or will be FORCED to purchase, otherwise face massive fines and/or jail time? Let's not mince words. Yeah his political capital is so considerable, he couldn't sway Massachusetts voters who are registered as Democrats 3.5 to 1 to keep a Democrat in Kennedy's seat. He's 0-4 now in using his political capital to sway (Mass., VA, NJ, Olympics). Governing against the will of the people will finish off the little political capital he has left. Dude, you are so entrenched in your Beltway cocoon it's scary. |
Forced...interesting you bring that up...if i remember correctly the necessity to purchase and fines if you dont was something strongly advocated by the health insurance companies and therefore only put in in some vague hopes that it would mean a republican vote. I cant blame the republicans solely on this one as the dems should have had some balls to say no, but you cant go past the facts that it was something the republicans were happy about when it got in the bill. |
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| djnitride |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Total disconnect from reality here. You are like the grad student who got an A on a term paper, but doesn't understand how it's real world application doesn't work... but still believes that if I just pay attention to your footnotes I'll get it. Obama has had a horrible first year. His approval has sunk to the lowest percentage of any president after the first year (now 46% in last week's CBS poll), and a staggering -22% differential in approve vs. disapprove from when he was elected. Every one of his major agenda items lacks a majority support. Did you not just see what happened in Massachusetts? New Jersey? Virginia?
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LOL, you ing nailed it.
You are a ing lunatic if you think Obama had a good first year... the bailouts, the debt, the total disregard for EVERYTHING important to our nation....
And his approval ratings tell the rest of the story, grad student! Time to go outside, to the REAL WORLD, where its practice, not theory that matters.
Honestly I could give 10 s about the democrats or republicans, they have both screwed us so bad that we are going down the drain because these days, NO ONE GIVES A FLYING about integrity in politics, they just want "tax cuts" or "welfare". |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by djnitride
LOL, you ing nailed it.
You are a ing lunatic if you think Obama had a good first year... the bailouts, the debt, the total disregard for EVERYTHING important to our nation....
And his approval ratings tell the rest of the story, grad student! Time to go outside, to the REAL WORLD, where its practice, not theory that matters. |
Hey Asshat the biggest bail outs were at the END of the Bush administration.
You realize the president does NOT implement policy, he can only suggest and work on getting things done.
Blame Congress, the Presidents intentions are solid. |
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| djnitride |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Hey Asshat the biggest bail outs were at the END of the Bush administration.
You realize the president does NOT implement policy, he can only suggest and work on getting things done.
Blame Congress, the Presidents intentions are solid. |
Hey Asshat, Do you not remember Obama speaking support of the bailouts on national TV to the American people, in the name of "Hope"?
At that point he had control of the american tools, and he used it to them. But thats what they get for being a bunch of greedy head tools who are completely clueless to reality. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by djnitride
Hey Asshat, Do you not remember Obama speaking support of the bailouts on national TV to the American people, in the name of "Hope"? |
Yea because he actually wants to get something ing done. The Republicans just sit there and act like sticks in the mud because they aren't in power.
Like I said we are ed anyways. The Republic of Cascadia and whatever California becomes will be most prosperous countries in North America after the US splits up. So I say everyone on the east coast and the midwest. You are are ing blind ignorant pigs who will die from your own ignorance and ineptitude and the people in the West will be better off for it! |
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| djnitride |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Yea because he actually wants to get something ing done. The Republicans just sit there and act like sticks in the mud because they aren't in power.
Like I said we are ed anyways. The Republic of Cascadia and whatever California becomes will be most prosperous countries in North America after the US splits up. So I say everyone on the east coast and the midwest. You are are ing blind ignorant pigs who will die from your own ignorance and ineptitude and the people in the West will be better off for it! |
the republicans and the democrats, they both have completely failed us.
I have been proposing Texas to secede from the US since Bush (but realistically we should have never annexed the USA).
We have oceans, oil, crops, livestock, and technology (not to mention TONS of cheap labor). We will be just fine ;)
Your idea of getting something done:
spending like an asshat till we drown in debt. Yeah, sounds great |
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| Comrade Stalin |
Given the circumstances, Obama had a great ing year.
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
This is a fair point, and I agree... because the last 2 years when the debt/deficit expansion began under Bush, I hated every minute of it. They were too to stand for their principles, and they suffered mightely at the ballot box for it. And the same is happening again on the other side because it's even worse now than under Bush. |
Keeping the economy afloat is well worth the increase in the national debt. What wasn't worth it was the Republicans unpaid wars and prescription drug program. Republicans have ZERO credibility when it comes to fiscal discipline. I believe Obama is taking steps to halt the growth in deficits and maybe even start reducing the national debt but I haven't yet taken the time to research it, beyond watching the state of the union itself.
| quote: | | p.s.- I know this is you, Krypton :p |
:conf: |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by djnitride
Your idea of getting something done:
spending like an asshat till we drown in debt. Yeah, sounds great |
Thats both sides ideas. At least the Democrats want to make up for some of it by raising taxes on those who can afford it.
REMEMBER PEOPLE TAXES ARE GOOD. IT PAYS FOR POLICE, THE MILITARY, FEDERAL INVESTIGATIVE AGENCIES, LIBRARIES, AND EDUCATION!
But yea, thats not my idea.
My idea is the most beautiful and self-sustainable part of the country get itself its own country.
I support Texas leaving too, let them become a christian caliphate, they already got the deserts, might as well act just like them muslims they hate so much. They all pray to the same god anways. |
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| djnitride |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Thats both sides ideas. At least the Democrats want to make up for some of it by raising taxes on those who can afford it.
REMEMBER PEOPLE TAXES ARE GOOD. IT PAYS FOR POLICE, THE MILITARY, FEDERAL INVESTIGATIVE AGENCIES, LIBRARIES, AND EDUCATION!
But yea, thats not my idea.
My idea is the most beautiful and self-sustainable part of the country get itself its own country.
I support Texas leaving too, let them become a christian caliphate, they already got the deserts, might as well act just like them muslims they hate so much. They all pray to the same god anways. |
We will be back, we will crusade through California and torture all the vile hippies and drug fiends! Praise jesus!!!!!! :whip: :whip: :whip: :whip: we will pour barrels of oil on you and sacrifice you to the almighty!
But slander aside, the democrats spend more than the republicans to create deficit and raise taxes, and the republicans spend a bit less but also cut taxes.
WHY CANT ANY PARTY JUST RAISE TAXES AND CUT SPENDING??? The solution is not that difficult to comprehend. |
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