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Does having good music theory knowledge make u better at trance? (pg. 3)
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| RichieV |
| the problem is that people that want to invoke tonal harmony don't learn enough about "theory" to do it well which makes everything sound so predictable. This is why I tend to prefer those that don't try to do something they aren't capable and explore other facets of EDM which I think is what is contributing to good new art. |
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| Sonic_c |
| quote: | Originally posted by RichieV
the problem is that people that want to invoke tonal harmony don't learn enough about "theory" to do it well which makes everything sound so predictable. This is why I tend to prefer those that don't try to do something they aren't capable and explore other facets of EDM which I think is what is contributing to good new art. |
HEY! lol how will i learn unless i try, at least people know im committed to it been harping on about for god knows how long. |
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| RichieV |
but you've actually invested alot of time which I respect and I think it will pay off. I think you are learning it because you are curious and think it is cool. That i respect. I had the same feeling when I started knowing nothing about 7 years ago.
edit . It isn't about respect really , i just think you are learning it the right way and therefore I think it will pay off, |
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| EddieZilker |
I think it takes a combination of theory and experience.
Take easy listening jazz, for instance - technically, theoretically perfect music yet I've never, ever, ever heard anything more irksome than that. When I'm taken in for water boarding, one note from Kenny G and I'm spilling the beans on everything - my plot to hijack a city bus and divert it by three blocks before realizing it's just an ice-cream truck and I'm its employee - everything.
Basically, everything I've learned about theory never really sunk in until after I'd practiced it or, sunk in after I had heard it, having already practiced it.
And I like the model rather than theory, too. I've done a lot more modeling than I have theorizing. |
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| RichieV |
| but jazz especially the bebop era is completely at odds with tonal theory. So theoretically, it is completely imperfect. Which is why theory as a prescriptive governor , or approaching it that way is dangerous to creativity. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by RichieV
but jazz especially the bebop era is completely at odds with tonal theory. So theoretically, it is completely imperfect. Which is why theory as a prescriptive governor , or approaching it that way is dangerous to creativity. |
Absolutely agreed. |
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| RichieV |
| and intervals won't help much by themselves. You need to learn scale degrees and understand the role of those intervals in a given tonality. Scale degree is just a number attached to a given diatonic note in a major or minor scale. So 3 in major is the third of the dominant. This allows you to give a context of the notes you are hearing. Knowing what a minor six sounds like is a start but to transcribe something in a context is much harder. You could have two identical intervals in the melody but because the harmony, it will seem really hard to transcribe. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by RichieV
and intervals won't help much by themselves. You need to learn scale degrees and understand the role of those intervals in a given tonality. Scale degree is just a number attached to a given diatonic note in a major or minor scale. So 3 in major is the third of the dominant. This allows you to give a context of the notes you are hearing. Knowing what a minor six sounds like is a start but to transcribe something in a context is much harder. You could have two identical intervals in the melody but because the harmony, it will seem really hard to transcribe. |
Damn it, Richie!
Now you're just exposing me as a dilettante!
(Not that I don't appreciate the lesson in how to at least sound like I know what I'm talking about ;) |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by RichieV
theory is sort of formative and prescriptive. So unless you really learn it and learn how it came about and then understand why people diverted from it, it can cause you to write really pedantic music. It takes years to really truly gasp it.
I think that most great producers don't really know much about theory and do alot by ear. ALot of the master composers did not study harmony and had no training for chordal succession. They formed their own framework which is essentially what theory is. But then there are those that completely ignore it and did great stuff. Think Debussy and Stravinsky. |
Yep. I also think music theory in many senses is outdated and largely useless for electronic music.
Most electronic music focusses on sound, not music, so unless someone's invented notation for a noise sweep, music theory won't be that much help. Sometimes, the best tracks really aren't very musical at all as far as their theory goes.
Of course, when I say music theory, I mean in its most limited formal sense. knowledge of what chord progressions sound good, and what intervals work together, knowledge of what patterns of notes give what effect, is a whole other matter, and not really a matter of knowledge of music "theory" but more just knowledge of music composition. Which are different things IMO.
Personally, I've never had any trouble writing in any genre, and I only have the instinctual (and some formal) theory associated with playing real instruments for several years. |
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| IceColdWater |
| It's better to understand music before trying to make it. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by IceColdWater
It's better to understand music before trying to make it. |
Of course, that could be said about anything like swimming, watching television, politics, reading, using the toilet or synthesizing illegal drugs.
The bottom line!
You'll never learn until you try.
...Besides, you only have to press a button and the computer does everything for you. ;) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
Yep. I also think music theory in many senses is outdated and largely useless for electronic music. |
Pretty sure that's not what he said, at any point in the conversation...
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Of course, that could be said about anything like swimming, watching television, politics, reading, using the toilet or synthesizing illegal drugs. |
How could you know if your drugs are any good if you don't have a clear idea of what colours the dancing grizzly bears are supposed to be? |
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