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I support my second amendment right because of the Tea Party. (pg. 4)
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by zDmn
That was 2 million people protesting in Washington. |
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Some people are hopelessly clueless. It was 8000, 10,000 tops. Jesus, the Metro wasn't even as crowded as it is every Friday during rush hour. Do you think people apparated here?
I'm not even going to bother with the rest of the thread. Shameless. |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
I wouldn't call them crazy; they are nothing more and nothing less than a foolish and ignorant mob, a symptom of democracy's many failings.
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Many a foolish and ignorant mob has been convinced to do stupid things by the equaly foolish, ignorant, or idological leadership.
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These people are particularly vulnerable to such influences: many are struggling seriously due to the current state of the economy. They reasonably want to understand why this has befallen them, but they are psychologically predisposed away from achieving such understanding. As with most complex phenomena, the economic crisis was caused by the mindless interaction of many discrete phenomena rather than any unifying individual "cause." But the same "promiscuous teleology" that promotes irrational belief in gods likewise facilitiates the idea that this complex phenomenon is the result of the conscious action of a single entity or a small number of entities. Voila, you have your hatchling conspiracy theorist.
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[emphasis added]
Good points for sure. An especially good one line description of the causes of the crisis.
I'm still concerned that the mob will be directed towards a scape goat. I've considered the possibility that race might play a part in the scape goat selection of the US people, as well as nationality. I've been saying it a long time now but I still wouldn't want to be asian looking and living in the US. China offers an glowing red target, as it were.
Based on the cultural history of the country I don't expect the act of scap goating to become organized or focused. Like the Facist parties of the 1920s / 1930s I expect each region to have a different brand of scap goats based on thier demographics.
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All that remains, then, is for someone of sufficient skill to point them at some possible source for their problems, and they will gladly and zealously ascribe blame without engaging of anything rightfully called "reasoning." This is their irony (or tragedy, if you prefer): they are really just the pawns of the same type of elites they believe that they are protesting against.
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So I see we think the same in some ways. I'd venture that the bigger worry to civil outcomes is that the someone who points out targets is not of the elite class, has no respect for the traditions and customs of the elite class, and isn't bright enough to know exactly what they are doing. ... someone who acts on instinct for instance. |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by NoError
This, but with a less conspiratorial overtone.
If the Tea Party movement is to do anything except civil disobedience and ‘civil war’ as quoted in the article, then it needs to crystallise around a leader. The oligarchy that gives the movement a direction and purpose is the exact same oligarchy to which its members are opposed. Which means it probably won’t go anywhere. |
Most movements start off peacfully. Stated limits go out the window as the adherents get fed up with slow progress or constant defeats. It is most likely that these protests form the networks of more violent individuals within the organization who might eventually become active. The IRA evolved something like that, well the internal rifts between violent and non-violent supporters is similar. |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by zDmn
The debt we owe ourselves (the Fed) is much worse than we owe the Chinese. If the dollar is nationalized like the constitution authorizes and a gold standard is put into place to regulate government spending, then we should be able to pay off our debts. Or perhaps im too dumb to come up with a different plan. But that wont happen anyways. Most people are too in ignorant and too busy pointing fingers at each other over the bs left/right paradigm to stand up and do anything about it. When 2 million people went to Washington in protest, the corporate media organizations (which are owned or influenced by the beneficiaries of Fed) made the idiots believe it was a march of "ignorant hick ****s" numbering in the thousands. |
When was the last time you read a publication put out by the board of govonors of the Federal Reserve?
When was the last time you commented on the policies which they open up to the public to comment on?
Where is your record of fighting the fed in the good times, when it should have been fought to avoid problems you say it caused?
I'm all for reading original work that points to the economic rational behind returning to the gold standard. It should include sources that cite reputable economic research / commentary and should draw attention to specific mistakes made in any article being contradicted.
Good luck. |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by zDmn
Thats an incorrect statement. The Federal Reserve doesnt borrow money from the central banks of other nations when it can print all of its own money out of thin air. You need to understand that the Federal Reserve is a series of private banks owned by a cartel of international bankers who own central banks in every other major nation on earth. That is not theory that is fact. In 2009 the U.S. Congress found out that the Fed printed $500B out of nothing and sent it over seas. When asked where the money was sent to, the Fed chairman replied "That would be counterproductive." |
You need to understand that the ability to print money is not a licence to be the richest person on the plannet. Federal Reserve employees get paid in US$ just like everyone else. They live in the US, just like everyone else. And they want a stable economy, just like everyone else.
Printing money without restraint is not only stupid and morally reprehensible but it actually increases the chances of negative expected outcomes, such as inflation, civil unrest, and economic stagnation. |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by zDmn
The debt we owe ourselves (the Fed) is much worse than we owe the Chinese. If the dollar is nationalized like the constitution authorizes and a gold standard is put into place to regulate government spending, then we should be able to pay off our debts. Or perhaps im too dumb to come up with a different plan. But that wont happen anyways. Most people are too in ignorant and too busy pointing fingers at each other over the bs left/right paradigm to stand up and do anything about it. When 2 million people went to Washington in protest, the corporate media organizations (which are owned or influenced by the beneficiaries of Fed) made the idiots believe it was a march of "ignorant hick ****s" numbering in the thousands. |
LOL 2million, ok.
You can barely convince 2 million people to watch the same TV channel these days, and you want us to believe 2 million people got off their lazy asses and protested in Washington? |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by zDmn
No actually. I read books. I love history and I study it. I have watched all three hours of Money Masters but it didnt tell me anything I didnt already know from books I have read written by Ludwig Von Mises. I suggest you read "End the Fed" by Ron Paul. That one is probably easy enough for you. Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". Educate yourself. You seem to imply that this is based on perspective but its all fact really. Whats your case? |
Right, there's your problem. Von Mises is a hard core right wing economist. He's like Friedman but not as well known. His writing is for the most part filled with holes and isn't all that applicable. I've got two of his works on my shelf but I find it difficult to get through because each of them is so full of wrong that the note taking is really intense.
Ron Paul is a nut, a courageous nut, but a nut none the less. I have respected him ever since seeing him suggest that the US people take some of the blame for the 9/11 problems. His economic views are poorly educated and poorly thought out.
Confessions is another tale of highly dubious nature. I found it much more interesting than Von Mises because it is kind of written like an adventure. Unfortunately I find the authors credibility is in serious doubt. There were some rather large gaps in his story and there is an overall sense that the author was reading implications into the actions / words of his co-workers that simply weren't there. At the end of the book I just felt that the whole story wasn't being told.
If you like those types of books I'd suggest the following:
-Reinventing Collapse
-Dark Age Ahead; by Jane Jacobs
-An Asult on Reason; Al Gore
-Globalization and It's Discontents; Joseph Stiglets |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
the gold standard has a contractionary bias and was a central contributor to prolonging the great depression. it is an archaic relic and only fringe libertarians who dont understand economics advocate its return. |
+0.5
I'm hesitant to dismiss the gold standard as a possibly viable economic model but I think it needs a lot more research.
The idea of pegging a currency to anything creates risks. The risks of currency to currency pegging is beter understood than pegging to a commodity but I tend to agree with Alan Greenspan that a currency system based on a basket of commodities might be an alternative worth studying. |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by zDmn
Only a nut job like yourself would have the understanding that counterfeit money and debt can bring an economy out of a situation like the current. Your feeble understanding of history is no excuse either. You fail to recognize an entire century of boom and bust cycles that are directly linked to interest rates that the Fed artificially controls. There was an economic situation very similar to the current one that lasted from 1920-1921 where unemployment levels were even higher than they are now. In December of 1919 the Fed of NY sharply raised interest rates from 4% to 7% and credit was extremely hard to come by. The most major fix used to combat the problem was a more than 50% drop in government spending. At that point real capital and savings were used to stimulate the economy and the result was the "roaring 20's". Since you havent caught on yet, the exact same tactics that were used to prolong the great depression are being used again to prolong the current recession/depression or whatever it is. It can be summed up in one word "Bailout". The New Deal was full of them. Including the illegalization of real commodities that were owned by the individual. The government doesnt have to ban and confiscate your gold these days though. They just print and borrow away. But in the end the exact same thing results. The powerful people get richer by robbing the middle class through inflation and debt. |
I suggest you also look up the paper written by Ben Bernanke years ago where he does an economic analysis of the great depression. I think you'd like the paralells along with the way that Ben's actions over the course of the crisis have been influenced by what he wrote on the Great Depression. |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
wrong. ive read all these articles before when dealing with charlatans like you. that gold contributed to the depression is well established economic theory. which you would know, if you understood anything about economics. |
As Raistlin pointed out, this is hardly the first debat about the gold standard and currency that has broken out here. Feel free to search for our opinions in the past, it might save some time.
From what I've seen the discussions on this board about some issues, such as currency and the economy, have been at least graduate level. I have run into a number of econ professors that have been dumbfounded by some of the things I've pointed out to them that I learned through the rational debate and reference style that has been predominantly adopted here. |
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