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pro tools = (pg. 2)
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Well, tbh you can pick up a digi96 interface for less that $1500 second hand or a 192 for around $2k. That's really not that much different from an RME, Lynx or any of those new. The cost of second hand PTHD stuff isn't really a deterrant for a project studio
or even semi serious producer anymore.
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Yeah, but what about the cost of the Core and Accel cards? When I was investigating PTHD, the biggest barrier for me was the cost of the cards. A new HD1 is $8000, and a full HD3 is $13,000 new and that's just for the cards. Then you gotta buy the Audio Interface at $2500, and now I am up to $16,000.
So what about used? A single Core card used is $1500 and that's not even PCIe, so that's useless on a new Mac. Tack on a 192 and you are at $3500 already. A used PCIe card is about $4,000, so if I want to use PTHD with my newer Mac, I'm already in the hole over $6,000. Plus, from what I have been told, an HD1 system is very limited and you really need a minimum of an HD2 in order to get any serious work done.
If any of this is inaccurate, please do let me know. I've been waiting to win the lottery to switch to Pro Tools HD, so if there is anyway i can skip the "winning the lottery" step, I'd be ecstatic. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Yeah, but what about the cost of the Core and Accel cards? When I was investigating PTHD, the biggest barrier for me was the cost of the cards. A new HD1 is $8000, and a full HD3 is $13,000 new and that's just for the cards. Then you gotta buy the Audio Interface at $2500, and now I am up to $16,000.
So what about used? A single Core card used is $1500 and that's not even PCIe, so that's useless on a new Mac. Tack on a 192 and you are at $3500 already. A used PCIe card is about $4,000, so if I want to use PTHD with my newer Mac, I'm already in the hole over $6,000. Plus, from what I have been told, an HD1 system is very limited and you really need a minimum of an HD2 in order to get any serious work done.
If any of this is inaccurate, please do let me know. I've been waiting to win the lottery to switch to Pro Tools HD, so if there is anyway i can skip the "winning the lottery" step, I'd be ecstatic. |
Presonally, I'd never buy protools new - you pay so much for the sticker and so many systems have been sold that the second hand market is rife with bargains.
Personally, I'd use the Avid expansion chassis (so you can use a PCI or PCIe host) then you've got the choice of running the cheaper cards and if you decede to upgrade your mac at any point it will still work regardless.
But yes, the core card is the killer. The PCI versions go for around $1500 but that's been steadily dropping with time. I reckon give it a year and they're going to be $1000. |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Presonally, I'd never buy protools new - you pay so much for the sticker and so many systems have been sold that the second hand market is rife with bargains.
Personally, I'd use the Avid expansion chassis (so you can use a PCI or PCIe host) then you've got the choice of running the cheaper cards and if you decede to upgrade your mac at any point it will still work regardless.
But yes, the core card is the killer. The PCI versions go for around $1500 but that's been steadily dropping with time. I reckon give it a year and they're going to be $1000. |
Thats not a bad idea, I may investigate that for the future. Really, I'd like to be able to front end Pro Tools with Logic and have the option to use the TDM plugins and the audio features. Do you know how the expansion chassis connects to the computer?
Also, would I be able to get near zero latency when using external instruments? I have been unable to make that happen with Logic. I currently have to use negative MIDI delay and thats super annoying, unless you know of a better way in Logic. |
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| DJ RANN |
yeah, it's a much more sensible way to go as it give you the flexibilty of choosing what PCI system you want.
You have to put a host card in your machine, then use the digi cable (which is basically a cat6 but it's better to just get the digi one to be on the safe side) to connect to chassis.
You can then put PCI cards (any combination of accel or process but no more than 3 process cards) in to the chassis and then when you upgrade your host computer to one that has PCIe, you can just get a new PCIe host card and reconnect the chassis.
Waaaaay cheaper than getting all new cards and lets you run the cheaper PCI cards even if your host is PCIe.
You can also hot swap the chassis between machines with just the digi cable.
Don't gte me wrong, it's still not cheap but it's better than the standard alternative.
I've built and maintained several fully maxed out HD4 rigs so PM me if you ever decide to bite the bullet, I can give you specifics on what to look out for.
You could also go for an Ensemble setup now it's stable but that's another conversation ;) |
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| meDina |
| I hope to god you didnt get protools on pc |
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| DJ RANN |
Oh, forgot, Logic for writing and PTHD as the system and mix platform is the ideal IMO. It's what all the composers I've worked with use (bar one who likes cubase but still has mixes done on PTHD once printed).
Also, in protools we've got latency down to around 4ms which is frankly unnoticable even for very serious players. The ensemble setup I've worked on can go even lower but it really doesn't make a difference. And by the way this is with track counts going in to the high double digits (only 99 max per system becuase of physical I/O limitations so we have multiple HD rigs when the track counts go in to hundreds). |
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| Eric J |
| Well its definitely something that is on my long term "wish list". I have worked on PT HD very briefly, and been around people while working on it and I really liked it. The stability, powerful features and high quality of the environment is just second to none and it certainly something I would move to if cost were no barrier. I'll be sure to consult you if I ever get the opportunity. |
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| atxbigballer1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jupiterone
what do you use now, and why did you switch? |
I did not switch, I use every thing, don't matter to me with i use, i just want to make music!
What I use and how i use it
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Protools: Live recording (with near zero recording latency) , Audio editing , mixing and rewire for Reason.
Ableton Live: Quick song making, djing and vst.
Reason: Sounds, Songwriting.
Mixmeister: For my dj sets.
Virtual dj: dvs dj system, and main .mp3 player.
Reaper: Songwriting and vst.
Every thing else i use when my buddy's come over with there laptops or i go to there pad. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Well, tbh you can pick up a digi96 interface for less that $1500 second hand or a 192 for around $2k. That's really not that much different from an RME, Lynx or any of those new. The cost of second hand PTHD stuff isn't really a deterrant for a project studio
or even semi serious producer anymore.
I can't talk for ableton as I'm not a regular user, but I know logic and cubase doesn't add timestamp metadata to audiofiles so I'll assume it's just a protools thing. It' actually ing incredible, and crucial for film score work as you'll track in one session, maybe have compostion (midi , external synths in noahter etc.) and mix in the master session so being able to snap the audiofiles to exact correct position at the click of a button is a serious advantage and saves a lot of time not to mention second guessing.
All the audiofiles recorded or printed (or even offline bounced) have the timestamp position included. You can then import to the playback head or to the timestamp position, or a position in relation to the timestamp.
As for elastic audio, most daws have somthing along the lines of them but I know for a fact PTHD elastic time is way more powerful in terms of options than logic (and logic's is fairly advanced). It basiclly can do meldoyne style pitching within the daw as well as intelligent warping for things like clikcless drums and figure out the correct spacing and even then give you options to to add more or less accuarcy so as to keep the human feel. I honestly don't think any other daw has warping and pitching capabilities like PTHD does. It also doesn't sound when you really push it or even use it in real time varispeed (variable pitch and time perametrs simultaneously) like I've experienced (albeit limited) with ableton.
VCA's are just very well implemented in PTHD - but you're totally right most daws have some solution for VCA's but the routing in PTHD lets you group them any way you need and for any I/O configuration without having to use a external routing matrix (like cuemix for instance).
Also, I do not think that there is another DAW that can do individual plugins on areas of audio files or regions.
If I think of more I'll post them up.....:) |
Thats all interesting stuff... Very cool about the timestamp thing for sure, I do wonder why every DAW doesn't do that. Would make life so much easier even for simple things.
What do you mean by VCA groups btw? I thought you meant controlling a group of channel gains from a single fader, but it sounds more like your talking about doing a submix? And yeah, I think a few other hosts like cubase have the whole submix thing working well, but I'm not sure. Definately sounds like a good feature.
As for the elastic thing, do you mean that you can alter the pitch of individual notes in a solo performance like melodyne? Or just alter the overall pitch? Is that still an offline process like it was when I last used PTLE? I think most DAWs have an audio quantise function now, I know sonar does anyway, not sure how good it is though. Ableton's is pretty ok IMO, and they now have the same Elastique warping algorithm as PT and all the others too.
Cool stuff though, although I'm not sure that timstamp position and built in submixes are really worth the $1500+(2x)$1000 minimum it would cost to get a modest PT system built for me, although I do maintain that if I was working with more than 20 audio channels I wouldn't be using anything else. |
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| ReclusNdangrmnt |
| I'm on ProTools LE, though I'm semi-pissed at it at the moment :P |
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| atxbigballer1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ReclusNdangrmnt
I'm on ProTools LE, though I'm semi-pissed at it at the moment :P |
I was to when I 1st got PT.
Blue screen of death on a laptop running XP. |
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| EgosXII |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I was taught while working at that place you got to hang out at through family connections ;)
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:stongue: |
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