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Questions regarding freelance vocalists (pg. 4)
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodri Santos
30$ it's fine, if she works 8 hours a day like most of humans is earning 240$/day working 20 days a month is 4800$, good job. |
The problem with an hourly rate is that, if I'm the producer on the other end of what is essentially an online collaboration, I have no way of knowing how many hours she spent writing, recording, preparing, etc. Not that Mia (the singer in question) is the type to lie about it, but if it's me paying the bill, I would prefer agreeing up-front to a flat-rate based on what the vocals are worth to me, rather than an unknown amount. Of course, you could have an hourly rate with a maximum amount not to be exceeded, but in my mind, that's most likely going to be the amount you'll end up paying, so why not just agree to a flat rate? |
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| Rodri Santos |
What i have done in similar things (Ie: A tatoo) is:
The guy told me, it's 100€ each hour, i'm going to need 6-7 hours or maybe more, but i will charge you 600€ and if i need more time it won't cost you more.
So what you say i think it's an efficient and common way to do this kind of things, the vocalist set a price for each hour or work and she knows how much it will take for her so you send the other producer a fixed price.
I think we were going to strange cases this is quite simple and should work. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodri Santos
30$ it's fine, if she works 8 hours a day like most of humans is earning 240$/day working 20 days a month is 4800$, good job. |
You won't be hiring a professional. As long as you know that. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
The problem with an hourly rate is that, if I'm the producer on the other end of what is essentially an online collaboration, I have no way of knowing how many hours she spent writing, recording, preparing, etc. Not that Mia (the singer in question) is the type to lie about it, but if it's me paying the bill, I would prefer agreeing up-front to a flat-rate based on what the vocals are worth to me, rather than an unknown amount. Of course, you could have an hourly rate with a maximum amount not to be exceeded, but in my mind, that's most likely going to be the amount you'll end up paying, so why not just agree to a flat rate? |
Because things don't work that way. In fact most will have their hourly rate at a minimum of lets say 3 hours and you pay for that before she has sung a word. Given a flat rate , what if you are never satisfied and she is essentially working on it in perpetuity for the rest of her life. The music industry is a nasty business and people that have been around know how to protect themselves. You will not find a professional singer that would agree to a flat rate unless you concede a portion of the publishing but given the fact you are relatively unknown, I just don't see it happening.
If you live in a music hub, you should be making contacts so that when you need a singer, you have a reference from a contact or colleague which makes deals alot less paranoid compared to some random guy putting an add on craigslist. You also won't have to pay full price which as I said starts at 100$/h for a capable yet completely unknown singer.
I think most people here are situated closer to the amateur way of doing business which is that there really aren't any rules or contracts. You pay what you feel is fair and the other person agrees. Will work out most of the time if there isn't much money being generated. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
The music industry is a nasty business and people that have been around know how to protect themselves. |
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
~Hunter S. Thompson |
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| mfitterer1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by studiobob
These things are best done on an individual basis until she gets really well known. IMO anyway :) |
/Thread imo. |
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| zodiac9 |
I should have better stated what I said. I meant charge a flat fee for the recording of vocals. The hourly wage was an average based on the flat fee. The vocalist has to estimate how long it will take to complete recording, 3 hours, 6 hours... ect. A song with few short verses and a chorus will take less time than a song with many versus and a more complex chorus with backing tracks, $120 vs $300 for example. It's a contract situation, you make an estimate based on the time it will take. If it takes a little more time than expected to record, the contract will negate any extra added fees.
An unknown vocalist obviously needs to charge less than a pro untill they've established themselves. Once they prove they can deliver the hits, charge for pro services. I think for a semi-pro unknown, an average of $30 an hour is pretty fair. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| quote: | Originally posted by zodiac9
I think for a semi-pro unknown, an average of $30 an hour is pretty fair. |
A mediocre music teacher makes 40$ an hour. You aren't going to find a good trained singer for less than 100$. You are rather clueless. You don't get to decide what is a fair price. |
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| cryophonik |
Yeah, we're all clueless.
| quote: | Originally posted by zodiac9
I should have better stated what I said. I meant charge a flat fee for the recording of vocals. The hourly wage was an average based on the flat fee. |
Ah - gotcha!
| quote: | Originally posted by zodiac9
An unknown vocalist obviously needs to charge less than a pro untill they've established themselves. |
Yeah, that's pretty much in line with what we were thinking. As I mentioned in the OP, I think it would be great if she could find a couple of producers with some (reasonable) name recognition to get some work, even if for free/dirt cheap/profit-share-only, just to help get her name out there and build a rep. I'm sure some people will say that's ridiculous, yada yada yada, but she's working for free now, so she ain't got much to lose. ;) |
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| Mad for Brad |
| you get what you pay for. I'd rather hire a professional that knows her range and can do it in one take. The types of singers you will get for 30$ won't be able to read music, won't sing in tune , will not sing in time and will take 10 times as long. |
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| Richard Butler |
http://soundcloud.com/butlerrichard/myson-2010
I just slapped a limiter on it for now - the label to the mastering when the time comes.
Dave, would Mia be interested in working this one - it's me singing - just a rough take obviously. |
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| zodiac9 |
| I'm in the mood to write some vocal trance. Cryophonik, if any of those vocalists need lyrics and music, I'm sure I could come up with something. Keep me in mind for that. I'm no big name, but I'm signed with Bonzai and have 28 releases on beatport. |
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