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Making money off your productions (pg. 3)
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
I suppose it is the same as those long haired rock guys stuck in the 80s somehow thinking what they do is still cool. I just don't find entertaining 18 year olds satisfying. I used to dj along time ago. Even at 21 I was starting to feel old and that I should be doing something more useful with my life. |
I have a couple of friends that fall into that category as well. They have jobs and wives now, but they are still out there trying to make it in bands. One of them just toured Europe for 3 months with a metal outfit and is currently in the process of trying to setup a recording studio for other metal bands. However, he still lives in a typical suburban house and works at a regular job during the day repairing synthesizers and music gear.
However, for ME, I'm pretty much in agreement with you on what I want for MY life. I'm quite happy being a working stiff during the day and making music at night. I really have very little interest in the typical nightlife at this point, although I love to make the soundtracks for it. I'll let others strive for the roar of the crowd and live on the road for months at a time, and I'll be quite content to sit in my little studio churning out stuff for them to play. Works for me, works for them, and everybody is happy. I've seen interviews with several veteran producers that do the same thing too, so apparently I'm not the only one that does it this way. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
Yeah, I feel kind of odd as one of those electronic producers who has never had much interest in DJing or performing live. It seems almost everyone in the production game starts out wanting to be a big shot DJ.
But I just like crafting music in the studio and then sending it out into the wider world. |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Yeah, I feel kind of odd as one of those electronic producers who has never had much interest in DJing or performing live. It seems almost everyone in the production game starts out wanting to be a big shot DJ.
But I just like crafting music in the studio and then sending it out into the wider world. |
Actually, there are quite a few very successful and well-known producers that never started out as DJ's and still do not claim to be so today. BT is the probably the most recognizable example. The problem is that novices and the media tends to equate DJing and producing as one and the same. Obviously those of us on this forum know the difference between the two, but lots of casual listeners and regular people do not understand the difference.
If you look at who the most successful producers in this business are, most of them started out as composers from day one and never DJ'd or got started DJing only because they needed a way to play live. The inverse is true as well. Digweed had Nick Muir, Nick Warren had Jody Wisternoff, etc. The biggest DJ's in this music are traditionally not good producers and frequently partner with others or use the aforementioned "ghost" producers. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
On the couple of releases I've had, both had as standard that after 5 years, the rights revert back to me.
Not sure about getting the rights back in a shorter time if the track is not released. I never asked but I can't see why a label would object. |
Ah cool, didn't know that it was standard in EDM. 5 years isn't very long though, I guess if the label wants to keep distributing the track then they buy the rights again..?
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
Yes, but as most labels will have every intention of releasing the track relatively quickly (why else would they sign it), I wouldn't have thought they would object to such a clause as it becomes completely meaningless once the track is released. |
Sometimes they decide not to release it and then you're stuck because you can't give it to another label as your rights are already signed to another label. So then the track can't go anywhere at all. It does happen occasionally. Also, what if the label goes bankrupt or something and no longer has a presence on beatport? There are a lot of out of print tracks that I wish could be re released but I don't think can be due to them still being signed and no one knowing who owns the rights.
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Honestly, that's pretty much the way it is these days. The bigger jocks can still command relatively high prices for playing a set, and even local DJ's can pay the rent by playing clubs on a regular basis. So for anyone who's in it for the money, you're better off just building a career as a DJ. After some time, you'll easily be able to afford to hire a ghost producer if you want to put out some tracks with your name on them. |
You'd be better off getting some tracks out first. Having Kit Phillips (OM records) or (Freerange) or (INT) or (Spectral Sound) looks a whole lot better and gets you a whole lot more gigs and crowd than does just having Kit Phillips on the bill.
Also, I think this dynamic is changing now because of tools like ableton, which allow any producer to DJ or even play live easily. Producers don't NEED specialised DJs anymore, unless they just have no taste in music at all. |
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| 19503 |
| dont ever sign anything with "optional three tracks", caus then they will own that alias of yours. they are entitled to get all your music first until you have made three releases with them and you have to ask them whether they want to release it or not before going elsewhere for any track under that alias before you have forfilled the "optional three", godamn lawyer , i wouldnt sign anything really unless you know the people personally and can talk to them directly. this business is so freaking lame atm and im not going into that trap again, i run my own instead. |
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| a98 |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
Can anyone give me some tips about how much you can ask for in a contract?
I was wondering if it would be unreasonable to expect a clause saying that if ever the track becomes unavailable for more than 1.5 years the rights revert back to me. In case the label doesn't release it or goes broke or something and I want to try to get the track released elsewhere. And another clause stating that the rights revert back to me anyway after 15 (or something) years. Would a label be likely to agree to that from an unestablished artist? |
Absotely! I always ask that first part to be added on every contract I sign. And the latter isn't unreasonable at all either.
Basically if you have a strong track ask whatever you feel should be yours. There are a lot of really dick labels, they think they are doing us artists a favor for signing our tracks and that we shouldn't ask for / expect any money or statements. But just be happy that they are willing to add us into their roster, and do everything their way.
And what comes to income, considering how many producers there are, average producer (trance) makes anything from 0€ to 300€ per track. Progressive House sells a lot more than trance. But since there's so much of that out there, it's even more likely that you won't make hardly anything. If you dont' get a semi-successful track the chances are it will make something below 50€ and most labels ofcourse have a clause that they only pay when royalties exceed over 50€. Which naturally results that they don't ever have to pay half of their artists. |
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| chrisspob |
| Can anyone give me any info on what is normal for an original artist to recieve in terms of royalties from a remix of there tune? My contract doesnt mention anything about remixes, just that i get 50% of proffits and 50 % of proffits made by 3rd party compillations, just curious to know what is normal before i ask the label a dumb question , cheers |
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| 19503 |
| 50% is considered good imo. maybe it wont be no remixes and thats why they havent mentioned that? |
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| Mad for Brad |
| quote: | Originally posted by chrisspob
Can anyone give me any info on what is normal for an original artist to recieve in terms of royalties from a remix of there tune? My contract doesnt mention anything about remixes, just that i get 50% of proffits and 50 % of proffits made by 3rd party compillations, just curious to know what is normal before i ask the label a dumb question , cheers |
key word is "profit". Technically you won't ever get paid no matter how much you make as any smart label with that clause will find ways to balance the books so they as in the compaby aren't profiting while the owner is getting a nice salary. If that is how it is worded anyways. Of course your label is probably run by idiots and don't even understand their own contracts so I wouldn't worry about it. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by a98
Absotely! I always ask that first part to be added on every contract I sign. And the latter isn't unreasonable at all either.
Basically if you have a strong track ask whatever you feel should be yours. There are a lot of really dick labels, they think they are doing us artists a favor for signing our tracks and that we shouldn't ask for / expect any money or statements. But just be happy that they are willing to add us into their roster, and do everything their way.
And what comes to income, considering how many producers there are, average producer (trance) makes anything from 0€ to 300€ per track. Progressive House sells a lot more than trance. But since there's so much of that out there, it's even more likely that you won't make hardly anything. If you dont' get a semi-successful track the chances are it will make something below 50€ and most labels ofcourse have a clause that they only pay when royalties exceed over 50€. Which naturally results that they don't ever have to pay half of their artists. |
Good to hear I'm not thinking completely insane! Thanks dude...
I think artists really have to protect themselves these days since labels don't pay advances anymore, so they can sign your track and block you from releasing it elsewhere, but they have no vested interest in releasing it themselves since they never paid anything for it! |
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| Mad for Brad |
| There is a law book dedicated towards the music industry and It goes thru real contracts in the days when contracts where a book. Gives you some good ideas to sneak into your contract as most label owners for the most part don't really know what they are doing. I have it somewhere here but the title escapes me. |
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| kitphillips |
It would probably be really good to create a sticky giving a list of things to make sure your contract has, and a list of things to makes sure it doesn't have.
Its a pretty crucial part of production IMO and certainly influences whether your music is heard by a large number of people... |
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