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What is the meaning of friendship? (pg. 4)
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
If any of them asked the question: "What is the meaning of friendship?" with no other information, then yes. What are we supposed to be talking about here? |
You're still unsure about what the topic is after 35 posts?
We may attach meaning to several things in life. What ivofivo calls "friendship" is one of those things. Though this would be a verbose way of posing the question, this is what we are supposed to be talking about here:What sort of values and narratives, and by that we mean social and personal relations we construe with the objects of our experience, and by experience we mean what we perceive through our senses and mental faculties, and I really can't be arsed to define what the hell these are supposed to be as I'd rather believe you know what I'm talking about before I'm sucked into an endless reduction, do we attach to a social phenomenon described informally by a group of people loosely self-described as "the speakers of English", despite the fact that the definition of language is a very problematic one and that many posters in this thread do not belong to this group if you think about it as those who came to speak this system of linguistic symbols in their infancy, as the word "friendship"? Or, in a more informal setting, he's asking what the meaning of friendship is. If you need a clarification of what other people mean by "friendship", check my post with the cute drawings. So far, no one seems to have had an issue with that definition of friendship, so we can use it from now on.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
What defines a friendship? |
I answered it a few posts above. We can also use a dictionary, if you find that unnecessarily complicated.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The social point of friendship? |
Well, we can talk about this... though this would be more like "What are the social implications of friendship?". Though, of course, you can't have a friendship unless you've got a group (and by group I mean at least two people), and if you're in a more Wittgensteinian mood you may also say that this is exactly what you need in order to have meaning...
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The evolutionary point of friendship? |
And this... though this more like "What's the origin of friendship?" than its actual meaning.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The emotions of friendship? |
Hmm.... they're an inherent part of friendship, but they're not the meaning per se unless, of course, you think the sole meaning of friendship is "a social bond that makes us feel good" or something of that sort.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The practical application of friendship? |
If you think this is part of the meaning, then yeah.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The intangible essence of "true" friendship? |
If you think this is part of the meaning, then yeah.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
There is just a subject, and a question. There's no point of entry, no anecdote, no framework. |
Blimey, do we need all this to answer a question? Remind me not to ever ask you what the time is, I don't even know how I could possibly get started! :p |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
It depends on the alcoholic.
(...)
In this sense they suffer from a form of pathological narcissism. They become monsters, in their own right. They are Jack Torrance, befuddled by their myriad fears and the delusions they conjure to counter them. |
True that, but I'm not sure this happens to each and everyone of them, as I know very little about this issue.
What I mean to ask it: do you think alcoholics in general lack the drive to bond with other people?
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar
Posts like these are why I ing love you man. :)
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I'm glad you like them.
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar
To add a bit of that, I think every discussion on friendship should dwell a little into Epicurus. His view was that friendship, besides acting as the glue that holds society together, was the main contributor to living a happy, pleasant life. I partly disagree with this since I think that while it certainly an important part of the pursue of happiness, it certainly isn't the main path towards it.
He maintained that friendship probably arose from a hope or expectation of mutual benefit between people but that with time and continued contact it grows into a genuine affection, devoid of any expectation other than the pleasure of having another person as your friend. |
I didn't add him because my post was already too long, but nice addition nonetheless :) |
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| EgosXII |
| 'Friends are just enemies who don't have the guts to stab you in the back' |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Remind me not to ever ask you what the time is, I don't even know how I could possibly get started! :p |
Specifying a time zone would probably be a good start. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
Specifying a time zone would probably be a good start. |
How would he know I'm asking for the time in the Greenwich Meridian (the political time) because I've got a date or if I want to know what time it is according to our distance to the Meridian itself (the actual geographical time) so I can go to my apartment before the sun sets still being able to see the sunset but not too early because I ran out of sunscreen? There'd be an offset in this case.
We need a point of entry, an anecdote, a framework!!!
(I'm just being playful here, Syst, but I imagine you got my point by now :p) |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
I answered it a few posts above. We can also use a dictionary, if you find that unnecessarily complicated. |
I find reducing all the many kinds of friendship down to universal components to be pointlessly reductive, almost tautological, draining any real meaning from the subject matter even as you define it. And why bother? Every human knows what friendship means.
There has to be a reason this question has been posed, an angle we're aiming down. Otherwise it's just pie-in-the-sky pretentious philosophising. I don't mean your responses either, I mean some kid going on a forum, fluffily asking "What is the meaning of [profound subject]" and hitting Submit. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I find reducing all the many kinds of friendship down to universal components to be pointlessly reductive, almost tautological, draining any real meaning from the subject matter even as you define it. And why bother? Every human knows what friendship means.
There has to be a reason this question has been posed, an angle we're aiming down. Otherwise it's just pie-in-the-sky pretentious philosophising. I don't mean your responses either, I mean some kid going on a forum, fluffily asking "What is the meaning of [profound subject]" and hitting Submit. |
I personally bothered to provide a reductive account of what friendship is precisely because we need to be in a common ground before we can engage in any sort of constructive debate. You said yourself that there were many sorts of relationship known as "friendship", so I narrowed them down a bit so we could get some work done.
And, does Ivo know the meaning of friendship just because he's human? Maybe he does, but what if he doesn't understand why people around him gather for no apparent reason? He did say a few thinks about having trouble caring for others in an earlier thread.
Still, what if he asked us about the meaning of friendship after having a row with one of his best mates who told him he doesn't know what friendship means? Or maybe he was hanging out with a friend and wondered about the meaning of it all?
Would your answer about the meaning of friendship chance according to the situation in such a crucial way as to render it unintelligible to someone coming from a different context? :conf: |
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| woscar |
| I'm hugely tempted to post that chop now... |
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| SYSTEM-J |
Lira, to make it clear: I'm not saying I can't see the reason why anyone would ask the question, I'm saying I can't see the reason why someone has asked the question. At the moment this thread is serving as a Rorschach test, and I'm questioning the point of the ink blot.
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar
I'm hugely tempted to post that chop now... |
You must be under the mistaken assumption that anyone in this thread is arguing. Although I can't really see why you're getting involved at all. I'll presume that after the Brazil argument you've developed a beef and will now follow me around the forum as you do to nefardec. |
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| Echo of Silence |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You must be under the mistaken assumption that anyone in this thread is arguing. Although I can't really see why you're getting involved at all. I'll presume that after the Brazil argument you've developed a beef and will now follow me around the forum as you do to nefardec. |
lol, Jack, you made me laugh. Ha, I'll follow you around the forum, boyo.
*poke poke
;) |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| You're not a successful member of TA unless you have a small entourage of posters who are immediately annoyed by anything you post. |
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| woscar |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You must be under the mistaken assumption that anyone in this thread is arguing. Although I can't really see why you're getting involved at all. I'll presume that after the Brazil argument you've developed a beef and will now follow me around the forum as you do to nefardec. |
As opposed to what you would like to believe I don't develop "beefs" with individual people on the internet. I do, however, have ample contempt for pedantic and faux-intellectual behavior which might explain why it seems to you that I follow certain individuals around.
Not that I should explain to you why I open threads on forums of public discussion and press the reply button but I'm getting involved because as an amateur enthusiast of philosophy, the topic being discussed is both interesting and relevant to me. |
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