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Music school (pg. 4)
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
From what you describe, it seems like the attitude of the hiring engineer might be something like, "Oh, he has a recording degree, so I bet he has a sense of entitlement about what kind of jobs are appropriate for him and will turn up his nose at menial stuff." Does that sound accurate?
Just wondering, because I've noticed that some people also have that attitude about hiring college graduates for "low level" jobs in general.
[Edit to add that I am speaking entirely from an industry outsider perspective.] |
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| Mad for Brad |
pretty much
They didn't go to school and they sort of view those that did with contempt. These sort of irrationalities are in every industry, For example, when my sister was doing her residency as a doctor, they made her work insane hours because the doctors before worked insane hours and it is just a sort of psychological projection. I had to go thru the so everyone else has to.
I mean it all depends. If you start the interview by saying, I've graduated from my 9 month degree and i'm ready to engineer. They will just roll their eyes. It just isn't something you brag about. They aren't so callous to the point of being complete s but you have to understand that pretty much all the engineers had to pay their dues and any little kid with a degree and sense of entitlement will really piss them off. Especially considering the fact that they probably haven't slept well in the last month and are on lots and lots of coffee. The senior engineers can get very cranky very quick. They all pretty much wish things were like they were 20 years ago and have this inherent dislike for the ITB reason producer that thinks he is an engineer. |
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| msz |
| im surprised you're feeding the troll that is kismet. put him on ignore. but hey, atleast you're giving a lot of info, cheers big industry mans. |
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| DJ RANN |
Kisemet - I'm sorry but you're talking out of your arse and not from a place of knowledge about this.
I only got my studio job two years ago so my experience is very valid and not some relic of the the way things used to be as you seem to think.
Sorry but this is how it is - they honestly don't give a about a degree and if anything (as others have said) they get worried as they think you'll have some air of entitlement or are not prepared to learn it from the bottom up.
And I wasn't some green pea - I graduated from Audio engineering school nearly 9 years before, started out in audio retail, moved to trade broadcast sales, then engineering consultancy and audio installation work, then up to producing live broadcasts, jingles and radio segments for the PR industry.
And I gave it up to get cups of tea as that really is the only way to get in to a professional studio - be it here in the USA or in London.
I do not know a single person who came out of Audio Engineering school and landed a Engineering position straight off - absolutely no-one.
The only person I have know who got in to the audio field of the back of school alone was a friend who did their PHD in DSP technology, and even then they only got a job doing things for yamaha that they were doing in their first year of uni (5 years prior).
1st or Senior Engineers in a studio won't give any priority to someone with a degree over someone else, and neither will studio managers. Don't get me wrong, it's great that you've got it but I've watched guys with 6 month AE certificates get runner positions over guys that have degrees as they were more enthusiastic.
Here's the secret: your qualifications.....
.....It's not about your grades: The whole point of running is to test you; to see if you fit in; to see if you learn fast; to see if you react well when they push you; to see if you can survive without sleep; to see if you have a thick skin and a sense of humor. No studio is going to take a chance in a high pressure environment based off your resume. PERIOD.
The audio knowledge is secondary. One of the guys I've worked with is a major score mxing engineer. He was the receptionist and didn't know hardly anything about audio theory apart from how to plug in a guitar. But he had passion to learn, a very thick skin, took everything that they threw at him, and paid attention. His audio knowledge now vastly outstrips the vast majority of people I've ever met and he's an incredible engineer.
This sort of story is the norm, not the exception.
So when you have your qualification, better start practicing how to make a decent tea.... |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Kisemet - I'm sorry but you're talking out of your arse and not from a place of knowledge about this.
I only got my studio job two years ago so my experience is very valid and not some relic of the the way things used to be as you seem to think.
Sorry but this is how it is - they honestly don't give a about a degree and if anything (as others have said) they get worried as they think you'll have some air of entitlement or are not prepared to learn it from the bottom up.
And I wasn't some green pea - I graduated from Audio engineering school nearly 9 years before, started out in audio retail, moved to trade broadcast sales, then engineering consultancy and audio installation work, then up to producing live broadcasts, jingles and radio segments for the PR industry.
And I gave it up to get cups of tea as that really is the only way to get in to a professional studio - be it here in the USA or in London.
I do not know a single person who came out of Audio Engineering school and landed a Engineering position straight off - absolutely no-one.
The only person I have know who got in to the audio field of the back of school alone was a friend who did their PHD in DSP technology, and even then they only got a job doing things for yamaha that they were doing in their first year of uni (5 years prior).
1st or Senior Engineers in a studio won't give any priority to someone with a degree over someone else, and neither will studio managers. Don't get me wrong, it's great that you've got it but I've watched guys with 6 month AE certificates get runner positions over guys that have degrees as they were more enthusiastic.
Here's the secret: your qualifications.....
.....It's not about your grades: The whole point of running is to test you; to see if you fit in; to see if you learn fast; to see if you react well when they push you; to see if you can survive without sleep; to see if you have a thick skin and a sense of humor. No studio is going to take a chance in a high pressure environment based off your resume. PERIOD.
The audio knowledge is secondary. One of the guys I've worked with is a major score mxing engineer. He was the receptionist and didn't know hardly anything about audio theory apart from how to plug in a guitar. But he had passion to learn, a very thick skin, took everything that they threw at him, and paid attention. His audio knowledge now vastly outstrips the vast majority of people I've ever met and he's an incredible engineer.
This sort of story is the norm, not the exception.
So when you have your qualification, be
tter start practicing how to make a decent tea.... |
In any professional setting, someone with a Degree/Knowledge/Drive > Green Pea(Inexperienced Person)/Drive, when it comes to getting the job.
And your example is rather terrible, because that person already had a place in the studio. Its not the same as someone green walking in (which would be the people on this forum asking how to get into a studio). That receiption has connections...a method i already discussed.
Let me remind you guys the topic. A new kid on the block wanting to get his foot into a studio. How should he go about it? This does not mean, some dude that has been mopping floors and doing favors for the studio in the past already. Of course this person has an edge and does not fit the average person here looking for a potential spot, and due to connections built up would have an edge over someone with a degree, only due the past connect. Its like you guys are completely neglecting the actual situation or potentials, and creating these cases that does not fit the average person here, who has no experience in a well equipped studio. So how are you helping anyone here with fairy tales? While my advice is something that will actually give them a chance. Basically what you guys are saying is an orange seller on the street has an equal chance at a job as someone with a BA/BS degree at a decent 4 year school. Because the orange seller has drive, passion, they might fit in. Ok thats fine, but in modern society this is far and few between compared to a kid with credentials/degree.
And not everyone with a degree has an air of entitlement, this is what the interview process and the first few weeks of hire would be able to figure out, and the next kid with credentials would be given a shot, over a kid with no experience. |
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| EddieZilker |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
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Thats what i'm doing man, for sure. Dealing with people who are changing the case to make their fairy tale arguments true. But today, they would be rare cases. I know a kid in recording school, and he would beat anyone here in getting a gig based on his knowledge/developing credential. I'd hire him before hiring a kid asking to be let in with big lady n the tramp eyes and a pouted lip, which is what the average person would be against people with studio knowledge and a degree of accomplishing a studio based curriculum. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| lol well that is great that you would hire him. Now do you own a multi million dollar studio ? You seem to not understand the difference between how things work and how you think or want them to work. You are rather annoying. I can honestly say you will never ever work in that industry until your perspective and attitude change. I can pretty much swear on djRann's first born. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Thats what i'm doing man, for sure. Dealing with people who are changing the case to make their fairy tale arguments true. But today, they would be rare cases. I know a kid in recording school, and he would beat anyone here in getting a gig based on his knowledge/developing credential. I'd hire him before hiring a kid asking to be let in with big lady n the tramp eyes and a pouted lip, which is what the average person would be against people with studio knowledge and a degree of accomplishing a studio based curriculum. |
Saying you'd hire someone without actually being able to do so means absolutely nothing other than demonstrating you're clearly willing to speak authoritatively concerning matters well above your pay-grade. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
In any professional setting, someone with a Degree/Knowledge/Drive > Green Pea(Inexperienced Person)/Drive, when it comes to getting the job.
And your example is rather terrible, because that person already had a place in the studio. Its not the same as someone green walking in (which would be the people on this forum asking how to get into a studio). That receiption has connections...a method i already discussed.
Let me remind you guys the topic. A new kid on the block wanting to get his foot into a studio. How should he go about it? This does not mean, some dude that has been mopping floors and doing favors for the studio in the past already. Of course this person has an edge and does not fit the average person here looking for a potential spot, and due to connections built up would have an edge over someone with a degree, only due the past connect. Its like you guys are completely neglecting the actual situation or potentials, and creating these cases that does not fit the average person here, who has no experience in a well equipped studio. So how are you helping anyone here with fairy tales? While my advice is something that will actually give them a chance. Basically what you guys are saying is an orange seller on the street has an equal chance at a job as someone with a BA/BS degree at a decent 4 year school. Because the orange seller has drive, passion, they might fit in. Ok thats fine, but in modern society this is far and few between compared to a kid with credentials/degree.
And not everyone with a degree has an air of entitlement, this is what the interview process and the first few weeks of hire would be able to figure out, and the next kid with credentials would be given a shot, over a kid with no experience. |
Which bit of this don't ing you get. I did not have a job there. I wanted a job at ANY studio when I arrived in the states. and this is how I got it.
This is how EVERY person there on the engineering side got it. This is how every person I have known who got a job as an engineer got their position.
You can cry and moan as much as you want but your version of the truth is the fairy tale, and not mine or M4B's.
I can't say this any other way - they just don't care about your degree.
They care if you'll work hard and have a brain. Yes a degree can be an indicator of that fact but your still going to have to be runner to prove it to them.
I've watched a few guys with qualifications, real talent, and knowledge fall by the wayside becuase they couldn't hack the running and felt like "what am I doing? I've got a ing degree!", while guys who didn't even have degrees (high school only) toughed it out and got the jobs.
they want to test you, then mold you in to shape.
In modern society degrees can help you in nearly every field, but this is one where it just doesn't really do anything (apart from for your own knowledge) as there are no shortcuts (unless you have uber connections but that's a different discussion altogether).
You may well be able to learn faster after you finally get that chance to engineer and you may shine brighter once you're there, but I'm sorry it's not going to get your foot in the door any faster than the guy who did a 3 month music production course or the guy how has been making music at home for a year and knows his basics on Protools or Logic.
please keep pissing and moaning but it's not going to change anything. This is how it is in pro studios and post production houses all over the world. I work in this field, have done in two countries and see it every single day. Just deal with it already.
So either start making serious connections or get ready to be a runner. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
lol well that is great that you would hire him. Now do you own a multi million dollar studio ? You seem to not understand the difference between how things work and how you think or want them to work. You are rather annoying. |
Well why dont you do a test. Go on a forum that focuses on studios, and post two ads looking for an internship. One that says you are this great guy, you have drive, you will deliver coffee on your head like an egyptian, and you will give back rubs, and you want to learn how to work the studio. And another that says all that except the last part + you have a degree that is based on studio curriculum. Lets put fairytale method to work against my logic based method.
You will like not get any responses from the first ad. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| remember kismet's snowball effect he used to talk about circa last year. lol. what a character. |
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