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Gave up DJ-ing, want to produce (pg. 4)
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View this Thread in Original format
| Andy28 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Seandroid
If it takes no skill to do what you do as a DJ then UR DOIN IT WRONG. |
people used to get judged by there mixing on how well they could do it.. getting your mixes tight as , every beat perfect throughout the whole mix the beats phasing in and out giving you a lush sound because vinyl's drifted.. Dj's would spend most of the time "beat matching" while the other tune was playing.. That was a skill..
Now with cdj what do you see?? The dj setting the tempo the same as it is on the other deck which takes seconds, then piss farts on till its time to mix where he'l press play and hey presto the tune mixes perfectly from start to finish.. Mess about with the fx on the mixer for show and jump about to get the crowd going..
Iv dj'd for 15years, and still am, no am not doing it wrong, and yes with cdj's there is no skill in mixing anymore |
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| Rebel Brown |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kenny Rogers
mastering is just a ing retarded trend word and defines very much whats wrong about the whole scene atm. |
That's the point I was making, you ing tard. |
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| cryophonik |
How about we stay on topic and try to help the OP out? :)
@Imu - sorry, my original question about whether or not you were giving up DJing was just for clarification, not trying to stir up this fest and derail your thread. :( |
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| Imu |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
How about we stay on topic and try to help the OP out? :)
@Imu - sorry, my original question about whether or not you were giving up DJing was just for clarification, not trying to stir up this fest and derail your thread. :( |
haha no worries - it didn't derail that much. my two cents though: dj-ing isn't easier than it used to be. it's evolved. anyone who is a good dj has trained on vinyl - i believe at least. however, technology has improved, and it's best to use it. any good dj can beatmatch in upto 30 seconds (i'd say 15, but let's give people the benefit of the doubt). you can now spend time on other things - better eq-ing, some useful effects (emphasis on some), more careful track selection, etc. people just seem to forget nowadays that the most important thing is that what you're doing sounds good. how much skill or time it takes to get there is really irrelevant.
anyway, back to thread! :D |
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| Kenny Rogers |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rebel Brown
That's the point I was making, you ing tard. |
ok sorry then. it wasnt directly meant at you, you just triggered me. people need to forget about mastering and focus on writing and mixing. just please everybody stop talking about mastering. none of us have skill or equipment to do it. |
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| Rebel Brown |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kenny Rogers
people need to forget about mastering and focus on writing and mixing. just please everybody stop talking about mastering. |
Agreed.
OP, I know it's already been suggested earlier in the thread, but have you had a look through the 'master list' sticky at the top of the thread yet? That thread really does contain a load of really useful information.
Another thing that I found helpful was watching the videos that come with Future Music magazine, (Computer Music also has some good videos) as they give you a different perspective on how a number of producers work. You might not necessarily like the music, but you should be trying to pick up the processes used during production, rather than judging the end product. D.Ramirez is currently doing a series of videos that go through the entire production process from start to finish. For someone new to production I'd suggest at least watching the first episode here. As you've got Logic, you'll probably find these videos more beneficial and easier to follow than someone using an alternative DAW. |
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| Andy28 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Imu
dj-ing isn't easier than it used to be |
Sorry a cant let this go. Im not trying to start on you, am not an arse. Ask questions on production and if i can help, i will..
You can show a total noob with no experience how to cue up and set your tempo's on cdj's and they can then do it no problems.. Theres no chance what so ever you could do that with vinyl.. Even after weeks of practice a long mix would end up sounding like gabba, it took time to train your ears and not everyone could do it..
And 15seconds to beat match? I know your talking about cdj because with vinyl you couldn't do that and expect your 1 min to 1 and half min mix to stay in time without hardly touching it.. With cdj you could even get away with no headphones if your cue points are all set on mem card, just use the displays to set the tracks, you dont have to monitor it.
Its so much easier now believe me.. Yes its evolved, not at all saying its a bad thing, I LOVE CDJ 1000s, i really do, i even got rid of my 1210s, but stick some gaffa tape over the display next time you mix and use vinyl rips, then you'll get an idea of what im talking about. |
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| Imu |
| quote: | Originally posted by Andy28
Sorry a cant let this go. Im not trying to start on you, am not an arse. Ask questions on production and if i can help, i will..
You can show a total noob with no experience how to cue up and set your tempo's on cdj's and they can then do it no problems.. Theres no chance what so ever you could do that with vinyl.. Even after weeks of practice a long mix would end up sounding like gabba, it took time to train your ears and not everyone could do it..
And 15seconds to beat match? I know your talking about cdj because with vinyl you couldn't do that and expect your 1 min to 1 and half min mix to stay in time without hardly touching it.. With cdj you could even get away with no headphones if your cue points are all set on mem card, just use the displays to set the tracks, you dont have to monitor it.
Its so much easier now believe me.. Yes its evolved, not at all saying its a bad thing, I LOVE CDJ 1000s, i really do, i even got rid of my 1210s, but stick some gaffa tape over the display next time you mix and use vinyl rips, then you'll get an idea of what im talking about. |
i actually started dj-ing on vinyl and moved to cdjs when i couldn't afford vinyl anymore. and i play trance, where almost nothing is available on vinyl. when i used to play deep house it was all vinyl.
even now, i generally never look at the display. at best i'll look at it to see if i'm over +/- 3%, because at that point I want to keylock, but other than that, not at all. and well, when i say beatmatching in 15 seconds, i'm assuming your hands are on the pitch slider while mixing. it takes 15 seconds to get close at first listen, after which you need to keep monitoring your mix. at least that's how i mix.
and wow, i've been dj-ing 6 years now and i've never really looked into all these memory card options and all. in that case it really does make it easy. it seems like so much of a hassle to set these cue points and all though. i always say that djs should minimize on preparation for sets - it just takes the fun out of it. |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
Yes please lets drop the mastering discussion.
He's a newbie and the last thing he needs to worry about is that .
Get ANY sequencer you are comfortable with. A lot of people recommend the free ones (cause they're poor) but I'd def recommend dishing out some money for one of the more popular sequencers (logic,ableton,cubase,reason,flstudio, etc).
After that, you need to focus on WHERE you're gonna get sounds and what you are going to use to clean them up/add fx.
Most sequencers have everything you need, the problem is finding inspiration from native plugins. I still use a great deal of native fl plugins, but certain waves plugins just do certain things better imo.
Theres LOTs of good vsts out there and theres lots of ty ones too. Just get ANY of the "popular" ones and learn how to use 1 or 2 of them thoroughly.
Consider:
Z3ta, sylenth, ace, sytrus (great for fm styled bass) gladiator and pick a rob papen plugin like albino/blue/predator etc. I prefer blue for w/e reason not sure why. Rapture is also another one that doesn't get mentioned a lot like it use to.
But get a few vsts, and LEARN at least 1 inside and out. I can't stress this enough.
Theres 2 ways of looking at it. You can crack a new vst everytime you need new sounds, or you can simply learn how to program one competent vst. I went on a "preset rampage" in earlier years cracking dozens and dozens of vsts just to up my preset count and it was the WORST thing I could have ever done.
You WANT your sounds to be 2 things which can be hard for presets to do:
1) Cohesive
2) Original
And one of the main reasons not to use presets is because they will slaughter your creativity. After a few months all you have access to is the same sounds OVER AND OVER and at a certain point you will feel handcuffed to those sounds. Freedom and inspiration comes from programming your own sounds, and its really not as hard as people think. If you practice enough in a couple years you can have a fairly firm grip on how to do most basic sounds. And at that point you can prob dive into the world of layering, which is truely a neverending art form.
Next, focus on samples. You NEED samples, some people don't use them, I think those people for the most part are crazy.
Do what I did and organize a nice sample folder.
In the folder I have main groups and sub groups for all my sounds.
Like kick drums > club, trance, house, sub, etc pretty much how vengeance organizes their packs. Even if you focus on a specific genre get as many different kicks as you can, you will eventually wind up sticking with a few of your "favorites" and layering some that work well in other systems. Its ok imo to reuse those kicks over and over as the kick drum is really the only static element in a trance track.
Get closed hats, open hats, claps, snares, tamborines, rims, toms, cowbells, donks, random percussion, cymbals, crashes, reverse crashes, and as many unique one shots as you can find. But don't use sounds from packs that you don't like and KNOW don't sound good. Quality is definitely better than quantity in this respect. You want access to lots of good sounds fast.
Something I also did was build a MASSIVE soundfont library (leads, pads, plucks, bass, etc). This was important to me when I didn't have nexus and trilian, but at this point I really don't need them anymore. There are definitely a few gigs of sounds in that library that neither nexus or trilian covers, but for the most part when I need real sampled sounds (pianos or hardware synths) I resort to those 2 romplers specifically.
When first starting out the single most important rule I can tell you is RESPECT HEADSPACE.
Don't get in the habit of peaking your kick above -8 to -6db. And that should be the LOUDEST element in your mix. My bass usually peaks around -10 to -12db. Keep sounds LOW, this will always keep your tracks cleaner sounding while being able to fill them out properly like you want to.
For the first 4 years I produced I didn't give a about headspace and it showed in all my tracks, once I started thinking in terms of sonic space it really made a HUGE different in my track.
Imagine your entire track as it comes out of the speakers. WHERE are all your sounds going after they leave the speaker? This is really important to wrap your head around.
Are your hats all trying to squeeze through the same hole/frequency range? Are they all centered in the mix? The more percussion you have in general the more you need to be accomodating them in the mix.
Again people like to think there are "rules" which there are, but most of these rules from time to time you will break.
You always want the kick in mono, as well as lower frequencies of the bass, but for higher frequencies of the bass sometimes a nice widening of the stereo field can make it sound huge. It will always depend on the track and what other elements you have going on.
Do NOT forget about the importance of panning. If I have a closed hat in the same frequency range as another percussion sound that is hitting rather fast, I will always usually have to pan that hat 25% left and percussion 25% right otherwise the sounds clash and it will sound like a "sonic fart". Its the best way I can described it. Stereo field is important in trance. Anytime you add a new sound you want immediately find that sound a "home". If that sound is in a home with 10 other sounds, it will obviously get angry with you and pay you back by ing up your mix. Read about stereo field and you will also learn some nifty tips along the way.
Then all you have really is the mix. Sitting down with a blank project and NO IDEAS is not always the best way to start imo. I use to start specifically that way, thinking that a basic structure would limit creativity, but thats totally not true. You WANT a general outline at least in your head of what your aiming for with every new track. If you don't do this you will find yourself deleting track after track after track and never finishing anything.
You can even write it down on a piece of paper.
"Draw" your into, what elements do you want there? How will the intro change to build tension? What elements will you automate and HOW will you automate them? Will the build be accompanied by snares? swishes? a drum fill? fx? How will it transition to the break? Ask yourself these questions BEFORE you sit down otherwise it can become overwhelming rather fast.
Thats about all I can think of right now and I tried to keep most of it in a simple language you'd understand. G/luck! |
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| Imu |
back to the thread:
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Buy your soundcard used, if possible. I'm a PC user, so I'll let the Mac users here (hopefully) offer you some advice on a decent, yet inexpensive, soundcard to start out with. For monitors, I'd recommend something like the Yamaha HS50Ms, given your budget. Again, shop eBay, craigslist, Harmony Central classifieds, etc. to find them used.
Is your Mac a laptop or desktop? Knowing that will help others recommend an appropriate soundcard. |
How necessary is a soundcard? I've looked into this a bit and a lot of people said I should invest in a soundcard once I've gotten more of a hang of producing. I'd be willing to buy it now too. Any advice from fellow mac users on decent soundcards please?
As for monitors, I'm looking at something basic like the KRK RP5 G2, which was recommended off the tutorial master list here. |
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| Imu |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Yes please lets drop the mastering discussion.
He's a newbie and the last thing he needs to worry about is that .
Get ANY sequencer you are comfortable with. A lot of people recommend the free ones (cause they're poor) but I'd def recommend dishing out some money for one of the more popular sequencers (logic,ableton,cubase,reason,flstudio, etc).
After that, you need to focus on WHERE you're gonna get sounds and what you are going to use to clean them up/add fx.
Most sequencers have everything you need, the problem is finding inspiration from native plugins. I still use a great deal of native fl plugins, but certain waves plugins just do certain things better imo.
Theres LOTs of good vsts out there and theres lots of ty ones too. Just get ANY of the "popular" ones and learn how to use 1 or 2 of them thoroughly.
Consider:
Z3ta, sylenth, ace, sytrus (great for fm styled bass) gladiator and pick a rob papen plugin like albino/blue/predator etc. I prefer blue for w/e reason not sure why. Rapture is also another one that doesn't get mentioned a lot like it use to.
But get a few vsts, and LEARN at least 1 inside and out. I can't stress this enough.
Theres 2 ways of looking at it. You can crack a new vst everytime you need new sounds, or you can simply learn how to program one competent vst. I went on a "preset rampage" in earlier years cracking dozens and dozens of vsts just to up my preset count and it was the WORST thing I could have ever done.
You WANT your sounds to be 2 things which can be hard for presets to do:
1) Cohesive
2) Original
And one of the main reasons not to use presets is because they will slaughter your creativity. After a few months all you have access to is the same sounds OVER AND OVER and at a certain point you will feel handcuffed to those sounds. Freedom and inspiration comes from programming your own sounds, and its really not as hard as people think. If you practice enough in a couple years you can have a fairly firm grip on how to do most basic sounds. And at that point you can prob dive into the world of layering, which is truely a neverending art form.
Next, focus on samples. You NEED samples, some people don't use them, I think those people for the most part are crazy.
Do what I did and organize a nice sample folder.
In the folder I have main groups and sub groups for all my sounds.
Like kick drums > club, trance, house, sub, etc pretty much how vengeance organizes their packs. Even if you focus on a specific genre get as many different kicks as you can, you will eventually wind up sticking with a few of your "favorites" and layering some that work well in other systems. Its ok imo to reuse those kicks over and over as the kick drum is really the only static element in a trance track.
Get closed hats, open hats, claps, snares, tamborines, rims, toms, cowbells, donks, random percussion, cymbals, crashes, reverse crashes, and as many unique one shots as you can find. But don't use sounds from packs that you don't like and KNOW don't sound good. Quality is definitely better than quantity in this respect. You want access to lots of good sounds fast.
Something I also did was build a MASSIVE soundfont library (leads, pads, plucks, bass, etc). This was important to me when I didn't have nexus and trilian, but at this point I really don't need them anymore. There are definitely a few gigs of sounds in that library that neither nexus or trilian covers, but for the most part when I need real sampled sounds (pianos or hardware synths) I resort to those 2 romplers specifically.
When first starting out the single most important rule I can tell you is RESPECT HEADSPACE.
Don't get in the habit of peaking your kick above -8 to -6db. And that should be the LOUDEST element in your mix. My bass usually peaks around -10 to -12db. Keep sounds LOW, this will always keep your tracks cleaner sounding while being able to fill them out properly like you want to.
For the first 4 years I produced I didn't give a about headspace and it showed in all my tracks, once I started thinking in terms of sonic space it really made a HUGE different in my track.
Imagine your entire track as it comes out of the speakers. WHERE are all your sounds going after they leave the speaker? This is really important to wrap your head around.
Are your hats all trying to squeeze through the same hole/frequency range? Are they all centered in the mix? The more percussion you have in general the more you need to be accomodating them in the mix.
Again people like to think there are "rules" which there are, but most of these rules from time to time you will break.
You always want the kick in mono, as well as lower frequencies of the bass, but for higher frequencies of the bass sometimes a nice widening of the stereo field can make it sound huge. It will always depend on the track and what other elements you have going on.
Do NOT forget about the importance of panning. If I have a closed hat in the same frequency range as another percussion sound that is hitting rather fast, I will always usually have to pan that hat 25% left and percussion 25% right otherwise the sounds clash and it will sound like a "sonic fart". Its the best way I can described it. Stereo field is important in trance. Anytime you add a new sound you want immediately find that sound a "home". If that sound is in a home with 10 other sounds, it will obviously get angry with you and pay you back by ing up your mix. Read about stereo field and you will also learn some nifty tips along the way.
Then all you have really is the mix. Sitting down with a blank project and NO IDEAS is not always the best way to start imo. I use to start specifically that way, thinking that a basic structure would limit creativity, but thats totally not true. You WANT a general outline at least in your head of what your aiming for with every new track. If you don't do this you will find yourself deleting track after track after track and never finishing anything.
You can even write it down on a piece of paper.
"Draw" your into, what elements do you want there? How will the intro change to build tension? What elements will you automate and HOW will you automate them? Will the build be accompanied by snares? swishes? a drum fill? fx? How will it transition to the break? Ask yourself these questions BEFORE you sit down otherwise it can become overwhelming rather fast.
Thats about all I can think of right now and I tried to keep most of it in a simple language you'd understand. G/luck! |
This is absolutely amazing! So helpful. Just copy pasted it and I'll save it while I begin producing. Thanks so much! |
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| Imu |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Next, focus on samples. You NEED samples, some people don't use them, I think those people for the most part are crazy.
Do what I did and organize a nice sample folder.
In the folder I have main groups and sub groups for all my sounds.
Like kick drums > club, trance, house, sub, etc pretty much how vengeance organizes their packs. Even if you focus on a specific genre get as many different kicks as you can, you will eventually wind up sticking with a few of your "favorites" and layering some that work well in other systems. Its ok imo to reuse those kicks over and over as the kick drum is really the only static element in a trance track.
Get closed hats, open hats, claps, snares, tamborines, rims, toms, cowbells, donks, random percussion, cymbals, crashes, reverse crashes, and as many unique one shots as you can find. But don't use sounds from packs that you don't like and KNOW don't sound good. Quality is definitely better than quantity in this respect. You want access to lots of good sounds fast.
Something I also did was build a MASSIVE soundfont library (leads, pads, plucks, bass, etc). This was important to me when I didn't have nexus and trilian, but at this point I really don't need them anymore. There are definitely a few gigs of sounds in that library that neither nexus or trilian covers, but for the most part when I need real sampled sounds (pianos or hardware synths) I resort to those 2 romplers specifically.
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A question about samples though - do you have a favorite place to get them or do you just look around the web? |
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