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Being a producer is just like being a chef. (pg. 3)
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| Mad for Brad |
| well your definition of art is at odds with what most would consider art. Anything done in a creative way resulting in some sort of output that can be enjoyed or hated by someone is art. Deal with it. Do we really need to go over Aesthetics 101 and start ripping off Adorno quotes ? |
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| Storyteller |
Good thing I'm just ranting. It's sorta fun. I guess. So yes, while we're at it, please bring on the quotes. Maybe everybody's definition of art is just off. Pretentious bullocks. "I'm an artist".
Sleepy time for me now, I'm expecting insightful information below when I get up again. |
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| MSZ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
Sleepy time for me now, I'm expecting insightful information below when I get up again. |
who is fatter, nilsen or schossow?(no not in terms of sound:p) rofl |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Attitude is for the most part a socially conditioned construct, |
Thats complete and utter bull, read a psych book before you start spitting stats you obviously never even read before. You may read some bs like that in a selfhelp book but you won't find a single IRB approved study to support it. Both attitude and temperament have wayyy heavier genetic determinents than you think.
An adopted child will never have the same attitude/temperment as their parents. Drawn out studies have also been done on this to show that the basic temperament/attitude that a baby has is often the same in adulthood. Quiet, withdrawn babies grow into antisocial adults, babies who are risk takers wind up getting invovled in risky professions when they get older. Babies who are expressive grow into adults who are expressive, essentially ANYTHING you can observe about a baby will for the most part remain pretty constant into adulthood.
And I'm not talking about everyone, I'm talking about the center of the bell curve.
So for the "most part" it is NOT socially conditioned. Maybe about 20-30% at most. Go read research about attitude/temperament then come back and tell me I'm wrong. |
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| Mad for Brad |
I think you might have attitude mixed up with personality. Attitudes are expected to change thru out ones life. Carl Hovland comes to mind. He did a bunch of studies showing that attitude can easily changed. I think his studies had most to do with persuasion. There was one guy, Tessler I think that did some studies that showed a minor part of attitude is congenital but for the most part, it really is a learned reaction.
Anyways, we don't need to get pedantic to prove you are mistaken. Lets just take a look at the definition. An attitude is a hypothetical construct that represents an individual's degree of like or dislike for an item. If you eat something that makes you sick, your attitude towards that food in the future will change.
you sure didn't pay attention in class Robby! In my defence, i've probably read more psychology literature than you did for your degree but I suppose psychology is one of my hobbies as I'm always interested in understanding why I am so weird/eccentric. I listen to about 1 hour of psychology lectures a day when I work out. I have about 14 textbooks on psychology ( mostly stolen from the library ) . So don't feel bad that you are wrong.
My other hobby is WWII history. If I ingest enough coke, I can talk to you about that war for 5 hours straight while your back is turned. Edit, I forgot to mention submarines. For some reason, I seem to know everything there is to know about submarines. I can talk for hours about submarines. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
My other hobby is WWII history. If I ingest enough coke, I can talk to you about that war for 5 hours straight while your back is turned. |
Oh man, we're gonna get a long just fine when we have that party at Palm's house. |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
I think you might have attitude mixed up with personality. Attitudes are expected to change thru out ones life. Carl Hovland comes to mind. He did a bunch of studies showing that attitude can easily changed. I think his studies had most to do with persuasion. There was one guy, Tessler I think that did some studies that showed a minor part of attitude is congenital but for the most part, it really is a learned reaction.
Anyways, we don't need to get pedantic to prove you are mistaken. Lets just take a look at the definition. An attitude is a hypothetical construct that represents an individual's degree of like or dislike for an item. If you eat something that makes you sick, your attitude towards that food in the future will change.
you sure didn't pay attention in class Robby! In my defence, i've probably read more psychology literature than you did for your degree but I suppose psychology is one of my hobbies as I'm always interested in understanding why I am so weird/eccentric. I listen to about 1 hour of psychology lectures a day when I work out. I have about 14 textbooks on psychology ( mostly stolen from the library ) . So don't feel bad that you are wrong.
My other hobby is WWII history. If I ingest enough coke, I can talk to you about that war for 5 hours straight while your back is turned. Edit, I forgot to mention submarines. For some reason, I seem to know everything there is to know about submarines. I can talk for hours about submarines. |
Not everything that has to do with our personalities is innate, but EVERYTHING that has to do with our temperaments ARE.
The point I'm raising here is that MOST aspects of our attitudes/personalities are constant and determined my innate characteristics of our temperament. Our temperaments are ALWAYS feeding out attitudes personalities. They are merely subgroups of temperament that will variate through time, yet still largely remain the same since birth.
I might change 1 thing, and become good with women, when before I was not, but there still 500 hundred other aspects of me that remain the same.
He said "for the most part attitude is socially constructed". I'm saying, "for the most part attidue is determined by our temperament".
Theres no right and wrong here. For every study you submit that says someones attitude was socially changed, I'll submit 5 studies that showed the majority of peoples attitudes are constant, like their temperament.
He made a gross generalization which is simply not true. LOTS of things have changed about me since I was little, but theres still a thousand more things that haven't changed. Thats the way it is for the majority of the population.
I don't really care what you believe is right, as not everything in social science is carved in stone. Its merely my belief, I have more evidence to back it up then he does, and I'm still not changing my belief.
Ask any doctor of psychology "do you think attitude is determined more by society or genes" and if they have ANY sort of research background they will tell you the same thing I am. Not everything in this world is some mysterious always changing force that can't be touched or predicted, in fact, its quite easy to predict the attitudes/personalities of most people 5 years down the road. We all for the most part adhere to patterns that were determined the day we were born. |
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| Mad for Brad |
show me one study that claims attitude is constant. I think the food poisoning pretty much nails the coffin shut. Temperament is more related to personality than attitude.
There is no right or wrong , as those are absolutes but the studies do tend to support my supposition. Attitude is about as static as a fly looking for the exit on a window. If you knew that I was a pedophile and had been arrested many times, your attitude would change rather easily. IF i told you I spent 60% of my income helping poor people, your attitude would change. Attitude is quite volatile. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Oh man, we're gonna get a long just fine when we have that party at Palm's house. |
I am quite interested in the German side of the war from a German perspective. Too much of the war is recounted by the winner but it is rather interesting to listen to how the german soldiers felt or perhaps the russians when they were losing. I am very fascinated by the german regime that overshadowed that period and how the people perpetrating the crimes convinced themselves that what they were doing was just. Not just the fabulous outfits but just the military achievements speak for themselves. The whole jew thing was bollocks but that is more something I would blame on generations of Catholics hating on jews rather than one particular generation that was very well organized. The german army was incredibly disciplined and effective. I have a particular book that details the entire army and its structure detailing uniform , rank and all that nonsense. The german army hands down had more class than the allies. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Thats complete and utter bull, read a psych book before you start spitting stats you obviously never even read before. You may read some bs like that in a selfhelp book but you won't find a single IRB approved study to support it. Both attitude and temperament have wayyy heavier genetic determinents than you think.
An adopted child will never have the same attitude/temperment as their parents. Drawn out studies have also been done on this to show that the basic temperament/attitude that a baby has is often the same in adulthood. Quiet, withdrawn babies grow into antisocial adults, babies who are risk takers wind up getting invovled in risky professions when they get older. Babies who are expressive grow into adults who are expressive, essentially ANYTHING you can observe about a baby will for the most part remain pretty constant into adulthood.
And I'm not talking about everyone, I'm talking about the center of the bell curve.
So for the "most part" it is NOT socially conditioned. Maybe about 20-30% at most. Go read research about attitude/temperament then come back and tell me I'm wrong. |
I'm talking about the socially constructed attitudes that might be carried over to the music making process. Not the existence of attitude in general. No that everyone is born with some form of tempermant and attitude. But even attitude overtime is socially constructed and moulded in different directions. A kid born with a positive warm and relaxed tempermant might have a different attitude by the time they hit 20. Both internally, what they do externally because of the social conditioning. Like the warm lovable kid that acts like a wannabe gangster. Just look at this forum, when most people came here they had a certain attitude and outlook towards music, and after spending a few years on it they've developed a different attitude towards things. Just look at all the trance haters, they came to this forum with glowsticks in their hand and now piss on trance, and its not because their biology drastically changed, its because their attitude/taste was moulded by others on this forum.
So its pointless to carry a certain attitude into music, making art or music in a purer form is much more than applying a certain attitude. It works for rap artists, but look how limited the stories and themes rap artists rap about are. "i did this, i did that, i slang this i beat that foo, i was in the hood, her ass was phat etc", and thats constructed by an attitude based form, which is limiting. As DIY musicians/artists you have more free range in what you can possibly do. |
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| Raphie |
Richard, you keep amazing me as these thoughts keep on coming up during your journey to becoming immortal Trance God.
My guess is, you will probably reach your destination sooner focussing more on the WHAT than on the WHY. |
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