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Anybody know anything about guitar layering like Rammstein/Linkin Park etc (pg. 2)
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
downtune. Thick gauge strings , double track and really using something like Amplitube 3 is enough. The rest is just heavy EQ and compression |
That's an interesting thought. Geoff - will Kontakt/Strawberry guitars let you simulate downtuning?
I'm not sure how LP got that actual guitar sound, but I'd usually do exactly what M4B suggested in terms of EQ and heavy compression. I believe you have Komplete, so check out some of the metal presets in Guitar Rig for starting points if you haven't already.
The other thing I'd do if I was mixing real guitars is to double- or triple-track them and pan each one to a different position in the stereo field. The problem with samples is that they will all sound the same, so you won't get that huge stereo-panned effect from differences in each guitar's take, timing, tuning, tone, etc. So, try using some slightly different settings on each guitar - vary the fine tuning, nudge your MIDI notes slightly ahead/behind the other tracks, change the tone of the amps slightly, use different pickups or slightly different guitar models etc. Also, use the round-robin option to get some variation. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| i'm sure if you go onto guitar forums , there is all loads of info. That sound is probably to metal like supersaw is to trance. You will find the exact settings somewhere on the net. Honestly tho, you have the guitar to make that sound. Just practice downpicking to a metronome for 8 hours and that is pretty much as good as you need to be to play that. |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
Just one other thing I'm rather great at. |
I'd expect nothing less. Not even slightly.
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
That's an interesting thought. Geoff - will Kontakt/Strawberry guitars let you simulate downtuning?
I'm not sure how LP got that actual guitar sound, but I'd usually do exactly what M4B suggested in terms of EQ and heavy compression. I believe you have Komplete, so check out some of the metal presets in Guitar Rig for starting points if you haven't already.
The other thing I'd do if I was mixing real guitars is to double- or triple-track them and pan each one to a different position in the stereo field. The problem with samples is that they will all sound the same, so you won't get that huge stereo-panned effect from differences in each guitar's take, timing, tuning, tone, etc. So, try using some slightly different settings on each guitar - vary the fine tuning, nudge your MIDI notes slightly ahead/behind the other tracks, change the tone of the amps slightly, use different pickups or slightly different guitar models etc. Also, use the round-robin option to get some variation. |
Strawberry does let you drop tunings etc, but I'm only using that as a composition tool at this point. The guitarist will eventually recreate my musings with a decent mic'd amp setup.
I was actually thinking of double tracking his efforts left and right and also layering in some Strawberry closer to centre as well. We'll see how that goes. He's already making noises about drop tuning so i'm pretty sure he knows how to achieve the raw sounds, I just need to know an aim point for the mixing.
Thanks for teh inputs
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
Honestly tho, you have the guitar to make that sound. Just practice downpicking to a metronome for 8 hours and that is pretty much as good as you need to be to play that. |
I probably will for at least some of the layering. And then correct it in Cubase.... |
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| Mad for Brad |
| if its of any consolation to all those that aren't as great at things as I am, I do have to take 4 different pills at different times during the day to stay sane. Although I will say the creative output I can achieve when off the meds is staggering but there is the chance I will end up at some gay circuit party wondering where the girls are and why everyone has more muscles than me. I can be cocky here because chances are , unlike in my work environment, i'm not surrounded by people more talented than me. Maybe this is my version of dating a fat chick. |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
Maybe this is my version of dating a fat chick. |
This is where your biggest talent lies, a stunning sense of perception. |
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| Richard Butler |
I've experimented with distorion a lot. One thing you may want to try is re-recording sounds through a speaker - even an old one with a cut in the cone, or just overdrive your monitors.
I find multiple sends to different distortion, amp sims, overdriven valve sims and oddities is the way to go.
Experment with room ambience sends too maybe.
Sorry if teaching to suck eggs. |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
I've experimented with distorion a lot. One thing you may want to try is re-recording sounds through a speaker - even an old one with a cut in the cone, or just overdrive your monitors.
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That's not a bad call tbh. I've just remembered I've got a little practise amp in the basement that could be useful to layer in. :) |
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| derail |
| You could try the new "Rammfire" plugin by Native Instruments. I guess it's just a Guitar Rig add-on, but it was basically created with/by the Rammstein guitarist, apparently it contains a number of his presets. They'd probably get you pretty close to the sound, though you'd probably still want to double track. |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
You could try the new "Rammfire" plugin by Native Instruments. I guess it's just a Guitar Rig add-on, but it was basically created with/by the Rammstein guitarist, apparently it contains a number of his presets. They'd probably get you pretty close to the sound, though you'd probably still want to double track. |
Yeah I was looking at that, sadly funds won't allow at the moment!
This is todays attempt at lashing something powerful together. The guitar chords in the middle are still the Kontakt ones but everything else is played 'live' and comped together.
http://www.mediafire.com/?xa68rcqmaa1hsc8 |
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| derail |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
Yeah I was looking at that, sadly funds won't allow at the moment!
This is todays attempt at lashing something powerful together. The guitar chords in the middle are still the Kontakt ones but everything else is played 'live' and comped together.
http://www.mediafire.com/?xa68rcqmaa1hsc8 |
It sounds like fuzz as opposed to chunky distortion. The drums sound too big in comparison. You need to remember it's not the guitar sound by itself that creates the effect of the guitars in a mix. It's also essential to have the bass and drums sitting in the right place in order for the guitars to sound the way they do.
It's a pity you need to try to cram a few years of heavy rock experience into a few days! |
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| Mad for Brad |
| use a rectifier styled amp. The onboard drive should be enough to create the sound. I prefer Amplitube over Guitar rig. I also find the plugins sold by Line6 to be great at that sound. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
most bands that do that style of playing are using dropped C tuning. What guitar are you playing ? |
Linkin park use drop D, so do most other metal bands AFAIK. Most bands playing as low as drop C would be using baritone guitars or 7 strings probably. Drop C is just too low for most guitars.
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
Yeah I've had a quick mess around with bass distortion but only using quadrafuzz. I suspect I shall have to run it through guitar rig to get it anywhere near mashup enough.
I'm thinking for the compression i'll need to pull off the attack a bit to keep those crunchy transients.
I'll be lost without sidechaining to a kick too. |
OK, so what you want is just that big chunky layered up almost percussive grindy guitar sound right? You really need to have a guitar specifically for this sort of thing, it needs to have quite a high action, VERY heavy gauge strings, and generally a really "tight" feel on the strings, especially if your tuning it to drop D, which you probably will. Imagine the exact opposite of what you'd want for playing jimmy hendrix style lead, you want humbuckers, thick neck, high gauge strings, les paul scale etc. The scale is VERY important because its what gives that feeling of tightness, using a strat won't work.
Once you've got your guitar sorted, put it through a noise gate with fairly rough settings, then on and into a dual rectifier (emulation;) ) then run that into a compressor if needed. The settings for the rectifier shouldn't be hard to work out, high power amp gain is the key though for the more mid scooped sound, also high presence. For a mor midsy sound, you should overdrive the input stage more. Maybe do one of each and then pan them.
Record the same part over twice, with the timing almost identical, than pan the two recordings off to the sides a bit (not too far) and change the settings on the amps a little. Now add a dash of tight drum room style verb.
Congratulations you've now made nu metal.
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
i'm sure if you go onto guitar forums , there is all loads of info. That sound is probably to metal like supersaw is to trance. You will find the exact settings somewhere on the net. |
Exactly.
You don't want to use a cut cone for this sound. That sound is better for bluesy stuff and leads, for this you need a tight 4x10 closed back cab if your recording the amp, or just use guitar rig.
PS
forgot to mention that you might want to try running a tube screamer in front of the rectifier to overdrive the front end a little more. Can sometimes deliver nastier sounds if snarly mids are what you want. |
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