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For those of you who have produced an album - advice please
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| cryophonik |
So, I'm embarking on a long-overdue mission of producing an album. Seems simple enough to me - finish a dozen songs, send them to an ME, print to CD > profit, right? :cool:
OK, so I'm sure it's much more challenging than I can even begin to perceive at this point, so I'm looking for your 20/20 hindsight. What pitfalls should I look out for? What challenges caught you by surprise? What would/did you do differently next time around? etc....
FWIW, the album won't be dance, but will be a blend of mellow/dark electronica and organica (yeah, I made that word up - "real" sounds) featuring several vocalists/co-writers. Those of you who are familiar with our mellower stuff probably have a decent sense of where we're going with it. I've got a drummer and guitarist from my old bands lined up to help out. I mention these because it might be relevant, particularly if you have any advice regarding crediting everybody, etc. |
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| Kenny Rogers |
| add random interludes of radiostations or other things to fill it up and separate tracks. |
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| Mad for Brad |
Engineers tend to do what they think is right unless you are specific. So be specific as to what exactly you want whether it is just a good recording without mixing or mixing included. Bring a CD of the style of recording you like. Let them know before hand what you will require in terms of mics and what you will be recording including every instrument model even cymbal model and strings which I suppose you can write on a paper as a great engineer will know what mic to use onwhat bass . Also provide a sample of the vocal style so he can suggest a few mics. . Have a chat with the engineer prior to recording were you can sit down listen the CD you like and talk about specifics and also talk about pricing and any hidden costs the like to slap on.
Make sure the band knows their part very well so that you can play together instead of tracking one part then another as that takes longer and can tends to just sound worse. If you will be the one mixing , you have more room to wiggle as you are able to decide if what ever needs to fixed can be done after whether thru edits or drum replacement tools or melodyne like tools. Add watch the time. You should have some sort of schedule so you don't fall behind
Always go with your gut if it didn't sound right as the engineer will tend to say ya that rocks man but also keep an eye on time. Make sure everyone is sober including the engineer and make sure everyone is there before they start billing you for time. IT should be very simple and very quick. No arrangement changes, no needless mic changing and no 10 take parts. And be rather diplomatic and nice to the engineer as they tend to be trolls but if they start extending time with needless time wasting, start writiing it down in case you don't want to pay as much.
The fact of the matter is engineers are starved for business so you ca get alot out of them if you know what to ask. And I suppose the last thing is to chose your studio carefully as some have better rooms for better purposes.
As far as crediting people, technically you have to be part of the union but if they are your friends don't be an . Most major labels will actually invent credits if the musicians used were not part of the union. I would also try to be the lyricist and melody guy on every tune and do not allow anyone to to change the main tune or any word however small it may be. Arrangements don't matter but as soon as someone has a melody or word, they are co writters thus you have to share royalties. Everyone should be just performing. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
Engineers tend to do what they think is right unless you are specific. So be specific as to what exactly you want whether it is just a good recording without mixing or mixing included. Bring a CD of the style of recording you like. Let them know before hand what you will require in terms of mics and what you will be recording including every instrument model even cymbal model and strings which I suppose you can write on a paper as a great engineer will know what mic to use onwhat bass . Also provide a sample of the vocal style so he can suggest a few mics. . Have a chat with the engineer prior to recording were you can sit down listen the CD you like and talk about specifics and also talk about pricing and any hidden costs the like to slap on.
Make sure the band knows their part very well so that you can play together instead of tracking one part then another as that takes longer and can tends to just sound worse. If you will be the one mixing , you have more room to wiggle as you are able to decide if what ever needs to fixed can be done after whether thru edits or drum replacement tools or melodyne like tools. Add watch the time. You should have some sort of schedule so you don't fall behind
Always go with your gut if it didn't sound right as the engineer will tend to say ya that rocks man but also keep an eye on time. Make sure everyone is sober including the engineer and make sure everyone is there before they start billing you for time. IT should be very simple and very quick. No arrangement changes, no needless mic changing and no 10 take parts. And be rather diplomatic and nice to the engineer as they tend to be trolls but if they start extending time with needless time wasting, start writiing it down in case you don't want to pay as much.
The fact of the matter is engineers are starved for business so you ca get alot out of them if you know what to ask. And I suppose the last thing is to chose your studio carefully as some have better rooms for better purposes.
As far as crediting people, technically you have to be part of the union but if they are your friends don't be an . Most major labels will actually invent credits if the musicians used were not part of the union. I would also try to be the lyricist and melody guy on every tune and do not allow anyone to to change the main tune or any word however small it may be. Arrangements don't matter but as soon as someone has a melody or word, they are co writters thus you have to share royalties. Everyone should be just performing. |
I think by ME, he meant mastering engineer, not mixing engineer. I'm pretty sure Dave will be tracking, engineering and mixing himself.
Putting my (capitalist) legal head on, treat anyone that plays on it or adds any form of content (aside from yourself) as a studio musician. They are "work for hire" and nothing else. Make it so you own all the rights and they get paid (of anything?) a flat fee and have no royalties. Sure give them credits on the album but don't leave any room for interpretation reagrding their role or your sole ownership.
I say this because I've seen too many project get completely screwed by people asserting rights because they didn't spend 10 mins down loading and singing a right agreement prior to recording (and there's nothing you can do once the content is created). The people I work for have this down to an art - only the composer, and selected subs or very well established producers gets royalty/residuals credits.
I'll give you an example: I used to work with the songwriter for a very popular UK indie band in the 90's. He'd write nearly all of the material for all their albums and singles (many of which went top 10). During recording, the singer, would change a word here or there (I mean literally one or two to suit her diction etc) and then demand 50% royalties. She got it as well because even though he had agreements from the label they were signed to, there was no specific language about wonership/credits of material during the recording process.
It's eventually what split up the band.
And then guess what? She went on to become quite famous with her solo career in the UK & Europe (basically a household name now), had several No.1 hits....and then people started looking up what previous work she had done....That meant more sales for the old material, that he wrote and she's still getting 50% for stuff he wrote.
If you want to give them royalities then fine, but whatever you do make sure you have something in place. You never know if some car manufacturer decides to pick one of the tracks for their new ad campaign and suddenly you're splitting 50% with the drummer who played an 8 bar loop while you did everything creative. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kenny Rogers
....and separate tracks. |
Do you mean, as opposed to having the album be one continuous mix? If so, don't worry, each track will be separate.
@M4B - lotsa good info there, although not all of it really applies to our situation. I'll be handling all of the recording and mixing, with the exception of the guitars. The guitarist lives across the country, so he'll be recording to guide tracks, chord charts, and badly played scratch tracks that we send him, essentially replacing our bad performances with good ones. The drummer has V-Drums, so all recording will be MIDI-based for easy drum replacement/editing. This is the way we typically work and it works fine for us.
As far as credits go, you raise some very relevant points. Only a few of us are members of ASCAP, so I guess we should all look into that. When it comes to giving out recognition, believe me, I'm not one to get greedy. The guitarist and drummer will be functioning as performers and won't have a hand in the composition part, but will definitely get their share of credit.
The singers, however, are very much going to be part of the songwriting process and, as always, will be the focus of the album - they write all the lyrics, some of the melodies, and even some of the songs with input from me - and the entire album will essentially be all about them. I will be funding the project, so we have agreed that the proceeds of any sales would go back into my pocket to cover the costs. But, if (and that's a big IF) there are any profits to be made after my costs are recouped, they will get their fair share of the net. I'm not sure how we're going to work that out yet - in the past, I've just given all the money made from any songs to the singers because it's never very much and they could use it much more than I can. I'll probably do the same thing here, but we'll need to work out how they would split it. |
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| Kenny Rogers |
| hiphop albums used to be good at interludes. edm albums have never had it except for technasia, and it works great on his albums. |
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| Mad for Brad |
i mean the afm , musicians union
Basically, any major label will not as a matter of principle and the dealings they have with the union credit anyone that isn't part of the union. Not sure where your cd will go but if you see it being on a major label, your friends might be in for a surprise. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I think by ME, he meant mastering engineer, not mixing engineer. |
Yup.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
If you want to give them royalities then fine, but whatever you do make sure you have something in place. You never know if some car manufacturer decides to pick one of the tracks for their new ad campaign and suddenly you're splitting 50% with the drummer who played an 8 bar loop while you did everything creative. |
Yeah, that's a good point. On one hand, I don't expect that to happen and, as I indicated above, wouldn't concern myself too much with giving up my share of a small profit with the people (i.e., the singers) who really made it happen. On the other hand, I'm sure there are tons of artists out there who made that assumption and ran into a contracting/royalty train wreck when the song did get picked up.
And, just for clarification to anyone reading this, we use the cryophonik "label" (for lack of a better term) as essentially an umbrella for anything that involves me as a writer/co-writer, but I really try to maintain the focus on the singers because they're the ones who are really driven to do this and I'm smart enough to know that my successes will come as a result of theirs and I'm fine with that. I know that probably sounds odd to producers who are generally self-sufficient, but I'm only in this for the joy of making music and working with cool people - not looking for fame and fortune. |
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| Mad for Brad |
all the musicians will get royalties if the music is used for a second purpose ie licensing for film/tv. However for the initial recording, they don't get anything unless they add words or melody. The drummer almost never gets a writing credit because drums are not copyrightable.
They guy who hired me on as a helper was assigned to write a tv theme which was to be syndicated all over. I wrote everything and not a note was changed. Still the bastard threw is name on as co writer.
so approximately 2$ x 1000 or so BMI local stations X 5 times a week.If it starts playing in other countries which I think it will, yikes. So he gets 5000$ a week x 12 week for doing absolutely nothing except paying the recording I suppose and the players. I suppose I don't really care as I would not of got that opportunity had had not picked me off the street.
Kinda makes your beatport earnings look rather funny; For less than a minute of music. I was actually pretty surprised. There is actually more money in doing music for TV than composers for film except the top guys. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
i mean the afm , musicians union
Basically, any major label will not as a matter of principle and the dealings they have with the union credit anyone that isn't part of the union. Not sure where your cd will go but if you see it being on a major label, your friends might be in for a surprise. |
Ah, thanks for the clarification. That's an interesting bit of information to know. I honestly don't know that the final product will be worthy of a major label's consideration, but we will at least shop it around, so ya never know. |
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| Kysora |
I've got nothing to add but if you feel like featuring other artists I'd be all up for a collab, from what I remember you pay songwriting more attention than most electronic musicians I'm aware of and I could definitely work with someone like that
Just a thought. I really like working with other people is all. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
all the musicians will get royalties if the music is used for a second purpose ie licensing for film/tv. However for the initial recording, they don't get anything unless they add words or melody. The drummer almost never gets a writing credit because drums are not copyrightable. |
Are you sure about that?
I thought anyone hired on a "work for hire" studio musician basis doesn't anything apart from their flat payment unless otherwise specified in the contract. It may be different for union contracts but I'm pretty sure that's how it goes with anyone else, regardless of future useage? |
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