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Don't Ask, Don't Tell - Your thoughts.... (pg. 7)
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
It's a civil liberties issue and has no bearing on effectiveness, etc. |
Civil liberties are for civilians. Don't get me wrong, soldiers should in no way be exempt from basic human rights (which I of course believe all sexual orientation to be one of these, so long as it is consensual), though what's "basic" to some people and what it is to others is where things become muddy. Hopefully, that is what this repeal is to essentially address: people's right to be whoever or whatever they are, and not suffer unbalanced consequences for it. That is also where I think there will be significant blowback, given the military is not a strict populace of civic commerce, but an even stricter chain of command subject to the ideologies of rarely varying individuals.
It's obvious that homosexuals have been in militaries for as long as there have even been militaries, but the sphere of public knowledge has evolved to a very volatile form in this age. You had better believe the US government uses things like facebook to profile its own; after all, when you sign those papers, you belong to them, you're their investment, their property. All the more, after a Private had dealings with wikileaks, is there a call for them to keep tabs on their service members. And what about the undoubted search function within their database to filter out a list of all enlisted, "registered" homosexuals, and dole out latrine duty, and cafeteria duty, and sudden transfers at the whim of one of these "right winger" COs that supposedly shouldn't exist because professionalism is obviously the paramount goal of any government organization... ?
I'm not saying I am against the repeal, because I am far more in support of its equality than I am for its utter opposition, but there's a reality to face being a minority, and people will obviously fabricate whatever discrimination against you that they will. As in the civilian sphere, your "rights" can turn on you, should you decide to be open about them in conflict with the position of others, only now the US military is given access to the openness for profiling its members, and what they decide they can do with this information is anyone's guess. I guess the essence of what I am saying is: the Military should not officially be able to oust people on the basis of their sexual orientation, but were I a homosexual and were I employed by the government, I would hope that nobody asked, and I certainly wouldn't tell. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zewad
The system wasn't broken. |
Not if you're straight. |
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| Lunar Phase 7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubularbills
I could honestly care less. If one of my airmen in my shop came up and said "hey guess what, I'm gay!" I'd say in response, "hey guess what, you still have to do your job".
I think there's big differences between the services. but overall it's up to the leadership to squash it. It's obvious the marine Commandandt has said he doesn't like the policy. in fact he thinks that now it's repealed, there are going to be marines, "losing their legs" because of a "distraction". but Admiral Mullen from the Navy said he wants to see it repealed.
I've personally never deployed in an environment where I'd be sharing a tent or whatever with multiple dudes. so i don't know what goes on in that environment. if they were all sitting around and talking abotu ing their girl friends and then one dude was like, "hey, i my boyfriend", would all the straight guys beat him up? If they're professional human beings, they wouldn't. would the gay guy try to get some action? If he's a professional human being, he wouldn't.
I'd say about 90% of the folks I've worked with over the years are professional airmen and officers.
and what about up the chain? if my boss and his boss both came out, i personally wouldn't think any less of them. but i wouldn't think any more of them either. just do your ing job and be a respectable professional and you'll still get my salute.
Upper leadership has a lot on their hands now, with this repeal being put into action. there's a lot of personnel issues to be dealt with. and not the issue of "every gay man wants to every straight man" but legality issues...insurance money....marriage...visitation rites...on-base housing...lots of things like that. i don't envy them...in fact, i'm kind of glad i'm not in their position because no matter what they decide it's going to make some people unhappy. |
Bill you are NOT in the military. That was a game you played as a child. Time to let go. I am still hunting down your tutorial on Fairy Lights using your small penis pick up truck. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
I really don't think a lot of things are going to change besides the fact that now the ones you know are gay wont lose their job.
If flamers are getting through after this to units then thats a failure on the part of the drill instructors and basic training. That "flaming" attitude obviously is not conducive to military decorum and I doubt those people would even join up in the first place. |
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| Lira |
| In the end, I'm much amused by the uneasiness of a bunch of men in uniform about the possibility of having queers among them. |
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| tubularbills |
I say just give it time. a good 5-10 years from now, all this "uneasyness" will be behind everyone.
lol, behind. |
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| Zewad |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubularbills
I say just give it time. a good 5-10 years from now, all this "uneasyness" will be behind everyone. |
+1 |
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| Slipmat |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubularbills
I say just give it time. a good 5-10 years from now, all this "uneasyness" will be behind everyone. |
Yeah, it will probably be blown over pretty soon. |
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| Imagin |
I start recruiting in August so this will only make my job easier.
Past that ive served with people that were gay and theyve all been good folks that just got tired of hiding their "lifestyle" to make a living in the military. |
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| ModernNosferatu |
This came from a much older friend of mine, so thus to say he is set in his ways and firmly beliefs Homosexuality is more "nurture" than "nature" as the Homosexual population as grown largely since he was a kid and I think we all have noticed it's rise in numbers as we have grown up. I take a much less un bias approach to any situation involving Homosexuality but he does have some good points. These are not my words (once again) nor do they really participate in the conversation of Gays in the Military but more of an overview of Homosexuality.
What are your thoughts on what he wrote to me.
"Homosexuality is not a genetic defect, It is a chosen lifestyle. Although the psychological genesis of homosexuality remains largely unexplained it is a mental sickness.
Homosexuality has taken a great variety of forms throughout the centuries and in many different cultures. Statistically speaking, as a given society increases its acceptance of homosexuality - so we observe and track a pattern of direct proportional increase in the number of sexual pedophiles, child pornography cases, kidnappings, rapes, and murders of children. Sadly, the majority of these crimes involving the kidnapping, violation, and/or murder of children, were acts committed by homosexually prone deviants.
The homosexual political agenda is a socialist action item. When the USSR collapsed people ignorant of the actual goals of socialism thought that Socialism was a failed system. Socialism is NOT a platform for social-political continuity. The goal of Socialism is to destroy the State so that the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" will arise. Unfortunately the "dictatorship of the proletariat" is fundamentally Anarchy. What the collapse of the U.S.S.R. illustrated was that Socialism is extremely successful at destroying social order and paving the way for organized crime to take over" |
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