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"Overcompressed"? (pg. 2)
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kysora
Something like the Blueman remix of Waterspark - Lego, the drop at the breakdown is extremely quiet and it builds to a very loud climax, there's a pretty large range of dynamics, but yet I imagine everyone would whine about compression or whatever else is wrong with modern trance nowadays.
I don't know. Just thinking out loud and trying to figure out where you guys are coming from when you criticise uplifting trance the way people tend to do around here. Seeing as it's the sound I go for I just need to see how much of the criticism the genre itself gets is just biased whining or if any of it actually makes sense. |
That is only macrodynamics. The more important thing to listen for are the microdynamics.
Something like Pjanno has a high dynamic range(for dance music).
Music that is over compressed reminds me of the smoke alarm going off: its just one long continuous tone without any dynamics. Over compressed music is generally harder to listen to because its more fatiguing and it usually has more masking.
Almost everything on the radio is overcompressed, and it usually sounds like garbage. |
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| Kysora |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
That is only macrodynamics. The more important thing to listen for are the microdynamics. |
Pardon the ignorance here but what's the difference? |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
Microdynamics are within a small timespan, macrodynamics are over a song as a whole.
The level of breathing room between one kick and the next will basically be your "microdynamics" in dance music. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kysora
Pardon the ignorance here but what's the difference? |
This comes from Bob Katz:
"Microdynamics - the music's rhythmic expression, integrity, or bounce"
You could think of it as the moment by moment change in loudness. |
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| Zombie0729 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
Almost everything on the radio is overcompressed, and it usually sounds like garbage. |
well most things on the radio go thru a broadcast compressor before it get's "sent out" that's why rips from radio shows are a terrible way to listen to music. |
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| Raphie |
BTW guys, bricking is not really compression, it's limiting
shaving off peak to a predefined ceiling, rather than squashing dynamics with a certain ratio when it hits a certain treshold (which is compression) the distortion is the limiter working out of bounds.
overconpressed sounds like a wet spunch, overlimited just sounds distorted, both affect dynamics. |
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| Stu Cox |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
BTW guys, bricking is not really compression, it's limiting
shaving off peak to a predefined ceiling, rather than squashing dynamics with a certain ratio when it hits a certain treshold (which is compression) the distortion is the limiter working out of bounds.
overconpressed sounds like a wet spunch, overlimited just sounds distorted, both affect dynamics. |
A proper limiter is just a compressor with a high ratio... it shouldn't result in completely squared-off waveforms like clipping does, but as the ratio gets higher it'll resemble a clipped signal more and more.
Technically any output signal which isn't identical to the input is distorted (with the exception of a perfect gain and constant delay), so distortion can be a misleading term and compressors / limiters don't really have 'bounds' within which to work, so I'm not sure what you meant there. |
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| vikernes |
I think most people say overcompressed when they actually mean "I don't like it, I prefer more minimal sounding". Take a listen at this track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t8t4dGt7do
That part at 1:10 sounds like something Blueman would throw together. If that was a played on ASOT people would probably bitch it's too compressed...
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodri Santos
uff wouldn't expect such a bad mixdown on Ferry Corsten... that must be engineers fault.
W&W's tunes are quite compressed too, you see that usually the meters peak. But i like their sound, i'm not up for the loudness war but in the big room trance i think having that kind of volume boost does not sound that bad. |
That's because there isn't anything wrong with that track. I have it and it sounds nothing like that clip. This was either ripped from some radio or something, or the uploader put a limiter on it or something. There's also a N7's Reconstruction mix (made by some random dude) which is indeed overcompressed. Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W50T7exuRk
Agree with you on W&W. Especially the earlier stuff. But that kind of style works much better when it is heavily compressed. I have a couple of tracks that sound like that. And until you squeeze the out of them they don't sound "big roomy" at all. Actually the trick is to only squeeze the out of the leads, but put the delay and reverb (on the insert of the lead) before the compressor. Try it out -> instant W&W/Virtual Vault. /cool tip bro
The same goes for the uplifting style. The whole point of it to sound big and fill the mix. And most of the time I don't think it's because of the compression/limiting. But because of layering sounds so they fill the mix. And there are uplifting tracks that don't use a lot of layers and (to me at least) just doesn't sound right.
And I suggest you people stop looking at waveforms and clip leds for an indication if a track is overcompressed. If anyone has BT newest album check out the waveforms for its tracks. Some of them are nearing pure square waves, yet it _sounds_ absolutely stunning. Looking at waveforms and saying if something sounds compressed is like saying "hey your kick peaks at 0db, it's too loud".
Here are 3 examples to prove my point:
http://i.imgur.com/J48AP.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZFT7E.png
http://i.imgur.com/bfol7.png
The top is AvB - Mirage, which most reasonable people would agree is not overcompressed. In fact, it's not even as loud as other tracks.
The middle Deadmau5 - Sofi Needs a Ladder - Which sounds overcompressed, becaus of the very nature of the sounds used. Yet it looks completely normal just by looking at the waveform. Here's alink if anyone wants a listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDndZn0YPdI
And the bottom is W&W - Mustang with their "overcompressed big roomy arena" sound.
I rest my case. |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kysora
Sorry if I made it seems like this is unique to trance, obviously it can be done in any genre but I just see it so much in regards to complaints towards modern ASOT-styled tracks even when most of the tracks do have quite good production values, as far as I can tell. |
A track can have excellent production values and still be over compressed as this would likely be done in the mastering stage. So a producer could be highly skilled, make a technically masterful tune with a high quality mixdown, but the mastering engineer could then over-compress in the final stage to make it as loud as possible.
Basically, don't think that criticising a track for being over-compressed is the same as calling a track poorly produced.
Also, based on several threads, I can't help but feel that you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder in regards to how you think others feel about uplifting trance. This is causing you to be too defensive...IMO |
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| Raphie |
That's why one should not skimp on mastering. I've said it before and i'll say it again, Mastering is an art.
most digital label owners put their releases on their crappy systems, load a hacked Ozone on their hacked Fruity loops, select the House preset, increase the highs a bit more and slam that fader all the way up. "look man, sounds really cool man" export it and have a ed up track.
That's why i NEVER EVER will allow labels to master my tracks.
Everybody who has some pride in their work, should invest in decent mastering, or learn it PROPERLY themselves. |
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| coroknight |
| I think this is mostly done so the track stands out when you listen to it on beatport. Online music stores should require the labels to send two versions of every track. An overcompressed preview version, and a well mastered version for download. |
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| Raphie |
Bull, there is nothing to stand out, it's plain earache,
Also note that people don't provide "Beatport Snippets" whatsoever
Labels can only upload 44.1/16 masters, through the tool and Beatport does the rest at their own discretion (lower bitrates & streaming samples) |
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