Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay
I just have trouble listening to slight variations of the amen break for extended periods of time.
Though you probably meant it as such, that was an incredibly idiotic comment.
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I deliberately went with a limited style for this mix.
Be that as it may, it affected the mix negatively for me. I listened to it three times today, and it just seems to hover on the spot for too long. As some people felt with my recent Dystopia mix, there just didn't seem to be any special moments or memorable passages.
I liked the ambient intro plenty, and most of the tunes were okay without being spectacular. If I was a drum 'n' bass head, this comment wouldn't mean much, but seeing as I haven't dug particularly deeply into the genre, most of it still tends to sound fresh to me. That I wasn't particularly enthralled by any of these tracks tells me something. Still, this is an enjoyable listen; just not up to your usual standard.
SYSTEM-J
That's a fair comment. I personally think this one flows better than Excession, which had 10-15 minutes in the middle that even I clock-watch through, and were mainly there as BPM/key bridges. But this mix doesn't have the same variety. I don't think it would sound less fresh if you were a massive junglist though - tracks that sound like this are pretty uncommon, hence the limited pool of artists used. As I said before, this is a relatively new/unexplored direction, which deserves separating from previous "atmospheric" tracks.
Domesticated
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
As I said before, this is a relatively new/unexplored direction, which deserves separating from previous "atmospheric" tracks.
How so?
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by Domesticated
How so?
Atmospheric as it originally was (and still is, mainly) is more jungle than drum 'n bass. You tend to get less bass from the drums and more from deep, half-time sub-bass. There is also a predominance of very slow pads, atmospheric washes and drifting samples. Examples:
In comparison, the tracks I play in this set have a more integrated bassline and beat, clear repeating melodies and much more forward momentum because there aren't many elements in half-time, especially the bassline. Basslines are usually constant, short and repetitive, or play out characteristic progressions. This stuff also has clearer structure, with builds, breaks, bridges, where as atmospheric tends for more vague ambient-esque soundscape structure, elements drifting in and out without particular spikes of energy or drama.
The stuff I play here is basically composed like trance, in other words. Classic atmospheric is much more like ambient. I am making this into an opposition where there is actually middle ground - Bass'Flo in particular is still pretty close to the classic template. However, the basic problem is that anything calming or serene in drum 'n bass gets lumped as "atmospheric", where everywhere else such variety of sound would warrant two or three separate sub-genres.
ziptnf
Good work, Jack. I can't say I was particularly inspired by anything in this set, but I did enjoy it. It was well crafted, and the buildup was considerably better than your last DnB mix. The tunes kept me bouncing. The mixing was nice too, with the exception of a few slightly shaky parts. See! Even if it wasn't all that special to me, I can still say nice things about it. You should try that sometime :p
I will say one thing, it took like 15 minutes before the mix actually started! I was sorta sitting there wondering how long the intro was going to draw out. Once it did get started, you brought it in well and kept the tunes pumping the whole time. Nice job.
SYSTEM-J
Don't feel like you should find something nice to say for the sake of it. My praise is always totally genuine, and you know it is because it isn't handed out just to make people feel better. I like it when other people are the same. Which transitions did you find shakey, by the way?
There's definitely been a mixed reaction to the intro. I was going to put [Ambient/Drum & Bass] as the tags. I don't know if people would have been more patient if I'd done that
ziptnf
I'm busy doing some school work, so I'll get back to you on those transitions. I didn't say something nice just for the hell of it, I actually enjoyed it, it just didn't quite strike the same chord with me that Dave King's recent set did. I just meant a compliment here and there is always nice :o
montana
yeah, good stuff. the intro a bit on the long side but yeah, as far as this kind of drum & bass it was nice, a lot of variety inside the general theme and good flow.
Domesticated
Well, I'm glad this discussion came up, because you're about to teach me something important. I was under the impression that jungle and d'n'b were different things in their formative years, but that they're now considered synonymous terms.
I also tend to think this is the case with dubstep and grime, but I'm probably wrong about that too.
What are the differences between jungle and d'n'b?
montana
yeah, the names are generally given concerning the era of said music and a common rule of thumb is that is how the drums, basslines and strings/samples are worked.
jungle, alot of drum breaks, usually very cut up but still remaining the swing and groove the original break has. basslines are very subby and rising and concerning which styles, you had alot of use of melodic samples and big sweeping strings. alot of uses of ragga vocal samples and pitched up vocal samples aswell.
drum'n'bass, the rising use of the two step patterns and using one shot kicks and drums as the upfront drums. basslines are more midrang-y and melodics are different, reese bass in particular becomes very popular and basslines become the melody after a while. this kind of 'clean form' became the sculpting ground for several styles in drum & bass such as liquid, techstep and (insert similiar kind of subgenres).
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by Domesticated
What are the differences between jungle and d'n'b?
These days, the distinction is generally given that jungle has sampled, intricate breakbeats with a separate sub-heavy bassline, where as drum 'n bass has more simple and powerful 2-step rhythms along with an integrated bassline.
The terms are often used synonymously, and I do it a lot of the time because "junglist" still refers to the scene and the culture, but if anything they were more musically synonymous at the start. Jungle as a term came from "jungle techno" which was how the British press began referring to the early prototypes for the style (read more here: http://www.djhistory.com/features/ragga-techno).
"Drum 'n bass" came from a vocal sample on The Invisible Man's 1993 classic The Beginning proclaiming "strictly drum and bass!" So both terms were originally just competing buzzwords to describe the same sound. Jungle was the older, established term and thus became associated with the older sound, and older production methods. Drum 'n bass was the later term and its popularity as a description coincided with the mutation into tech-step, so it became short-hand for the tech-step bottom end. Funny thing is that tech-step is way more like techno than jungle-techno ever was, which just goes to show how there's no science to genre terminology, and it's all down to trends, buzzwords and inventive journalism.
What I'm playing here has been dubbed "techmospheric" by certain folks on the Internet, which won't catch on because it sounds . However there's truth in the term - it's a somewhat belated cross-pollination between tech-step and atmospheric. In a sense it's surprising that such an obvious fusion hasn't been more widely explored, but part of the reason is that there was a rather fierce "atmospheric vs tech-step" ideological war in the mid-90s. Atmospheric self-styled itself as the upmarket side of jungle, with LTJ Bukem's residence at the swanky London club Speed being the focal-point of the scene. Adjectives like "intelligent" and "classy" and an unfortunate tendency towards middle-brow "proper music" jazz influences were very common.
Tech-step, by comparison, remained true to jungle's poor, urban roots and its dark aggressive sound was at complete odds with the soothing sound of atmospheric. So the two were completely at odds with each other, musically, socially and ideologically. Many bitter words were thrown by journalists and fans, and you still hear the same arguments re-occur today: Bukem and co are snobby, too middle-class and too middle-brow / neurofunk is unintelligent, unmusical and the domain of unsavoury chavvy types and would-be gangsters.
A musical middle-ground between these two clichés was understandably slow in coming, and I think it's only starting to pick up pace now because of the Internet and globalisation of music. When you take drum 'n bass out of its London petri dish and export it to places like Germany and Russia you get a generation of kids who are completely removed from the old conflicts and just make interesting new music. You can see a similar thing happening in prog with all these Eastern European producers on web labels like Mistique - they're bringing prog back because they have no connection to the revisionist ideology that killed it off in the first place. Just one of the many positives the Internet has brought to the music scene.
Domesticated
Insightful, thanks guys. Jack, you make me ashamed to be an aspiring music journalist at times; hence why I was so keen to read Energy Flash and the other books.
Drum 'n' bass is a pretty ridiculous genre name in itself, though it is accurate, of course. I remember I tried explaining it to my Mum a few years ago, and she was just too horrified by the basic description to listen to anything I said past that. "What do you mean it's just drums and bass?!" Ha.
