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Anonymous targets...The FED? (pg. 5)
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
What the is this garbage. Are you kidding me? Private sector unions are ok because they can't survive if the company paying them goes under. Public sector unions are dragging business and state budgets down in flames... they currently enjoy a salaray + benefit package TWICE what private sector employees get, and pensions that are generally something like 90% of their highest working salary + benefits FOR LIFE. Yet they expect the taxpayers who make half of what they do to fund this lavish lifestyle for them... and continue to demand tax raises over and over to feed their insatiable greed. What is this, the 1930? We don't need public sector unions anymore... they are totally useless in this day and age. |
You know why they enjoy it? Because they are able to get it.
ing idiot.
Private businesses exist to fund government through taxes, so the government can then go and fund projects that are either not profitable or too large for private businesses. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
You know why they enjoy it? Because they are able to get it.
ing idiot.
Private businesses exist to fund government through taxes, so the government can then go and fund projects that are either not profitable or too large for private businesses. |
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue:
WRONG YOU UNEDUCATED MORON!!!! You have it 100% backwards.
Businesses exist to make a profit. They do not exist to fund government, they do not exist to create jobs, and they do not exist to provide healthcare. All those things are the secondary result of a businesses profitability first and foremost. Dude you are embarrassing the hell out of yourself, trying to argue about business with a complete lack of formal business knowledge. |
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| Zharen |
Bump, since we were discussing TARP funds in this thread
http://www.propublica.org/article/b...lion-in-the-red
| quote: |
The administration has been on a PR offensive [1] in recent months to tell the good news about the TARP. As the Treasury Department official in charge of the TARP is saying at a congressional hearing this morning [2], the bailout won't cost anywhere near the full $700 billion Congress authorized. In fact, many of its investments have turned a profit, and some of its most infamous bailouts -- such as the rescue of AIG -- won't end up being the tax dollar black holes [3] they once seemed sure to be.
But the true picture isn't so rosy.
At ProPublica, we've provided a comprehensive bailout database [4] since TARP's launch. It shows not only how much money has gone to each recipient [4], but how much each has paid in interest and dividend payments. With all this data, we're able to clearly show how deep in the hole the program remains [5]. And the answer as of today is $123 billion.
Add that to the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which our site also tracks and is separate from the TARP -- and taxpayers are $257 billion in the hole [5].
Although the bailout has extended to nearly a thousand institutions, just a few are primarily responsible for the continued deficit: Fannie and Freddie [6], of course, AIG [7], and the auto companies (GM [8], Chrysler [9], GMAC [10]).
As for Fannie and Freddie, no solution seems imminent. They're currently $134 billion in the red (counting their dividend payments) -- more than the entire TARP. Congress and the administration are in the initial stages [11] of discussing how the companies should be wound down and how much of the investment could be recouped.
AIG [7] is a different story. It has started repaying the taxpayers' investments. So far, about $9 billion has come back, leaving the amount outstanding at $58.7 billion. The government holds a 92.1 percent stake in the company, which will be sold off over time. The process could take anywhere between six months and two years, Treasury officials told the Congressional Oversight Panel [12], and there's a strong possibility that the government could recoup its entire investment.
The country's largest banks (Bank of America [13], Citigroup [14], JPMorgan Chase [15] and Wells Fargo [16]) have also all paid back their TARP investments with a profit for the government.
But the government's rescue of the auto industry (specifically, GM [8], Chrysler [9], and GMAC [10]) almost certainly won't ever make its way out of the red. As of today, the hole is $47 billion.
How much will the TARP end up costing when everything's said and done? The short answer is that it's anyone's guess. The Congressional Budget Office put the toll at about $25 billion [17] in November. Part of the reason the projected cost is so low is actually the poor performance of the administration's foreclosure prevention programs [18], which seem likely to spend far less than the $50 billion initially set aside for them.
Hundreds of smaller banks also haven't paid the money back, and many are struggling. According to SNL Financial, 154 banks that received TARP money are delinquent on dividend payments to the government. That's about 22 percent of the 707 banks that received money through the TARP, but because the banks are generally quite small, the government's total investment in all these struggling banks only amounts to about $3.9 billion. So far, six banks that received TARP funds have failed, and one more, CIT, went bankrupt, according to research from Keefe, Bruyette and Woods.
We update our bailout database [5] regularly -- so check back to see the progress. |
Guess the taxpayer really hasn't seen their fair share of the bailout investments after all... |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| if the US govt comes away only $25B in the red, that would be a fairly incredible achievement imo. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue:
WRONG YOU UNEDUCATED MORON!!!! You have it 100% backwards.
Businesses exist to make a profit. They do not exist to fund government, they do not exist to create jobs, and they do not exist to provide healthcare. All those things are the secondary result of a businesses profitability first and foremost. Dude you are embarrassing the hell out of yourself, trying to argue about business with a complete lack of formal business knowledge. |
You are an ungrateful son of a bitch then, lets get rid of the government then Kevvy, I'll meet you at your place of business and we'll see who owns the building at the end of the day. ;)
You are defining business by what it means in the US, and what it means in the US is ing stupid. Its a system that is bound to fail because it serves only to exploit till it can draw nothing more. It does not provide a self sustaining model for society at all.
Go to Japan, you will see how well a high corporate tax rate works. The standard of living is beyond comparison to anything in the US. Companies in Japan realize that a better, happier society is a more productive society and will bring them higher profits than if their workers are barely scraping by. They also realize that by keeping their manufacturing, R&D, and support in country they are making their country more powerful and a better place to do business from because they have a strong base to build on.
The American business model is why New Orleans is still wrecked five and a half years after Katrina and why Japan will be, after the same amount of time, probably close to 80-90% recovered, after a much more terrible disaster.
Japan has even been suffering 20 years of stagnation and "bad" economic times, and the standard of living there is way higher than it is in the US, even the US at the best of its times. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
You are an ungrateful son of a bitch then, lets get rid of the government then Kevvy, I'll meet you at your place of business and we'll see who owns the building at the end of the day. ;)
You are defining business by what it means in the US, and what it means in the US is ing stupid. Its a system that is bound to fail because it serves only to exploit till it can draw nothing more. It does not provide a self sustaining model for society at all. |
You're dead wrong on the exploitation meme. That is a pathetic notion drilled into your head through years of Statist public school education; that America is the problem, and anyone who has profited through business has done so unethically on the backs of the less fortunate. I'll forgive you for this because you truly, honestly have no iota of understanding of business or market principals.
| quote: | | Go to Japan, you will see how well a high corporate tax rate works. The standard of living is beyond comparison to anything in the US. Companies in Japan realize that a better, happier society is a more productive society and will bring them higher profits than if their workers are barely scraping by. They also realize that by keeping their manufacturing, R&D, and support in country they are making their country more powerful and a better place to do business from because they have a strong base to build on. |
What the hell? Japan's debt is over 200% of GDP! They print more than 100% of tax revenues each year! STELLAR ING MODEL smart guy. The only reason they haven't imploded yet is because they don't have nearly the risk of foreign flight from its debt market like we do. But their model is still unsustainable. Our corporate tax rate has now equaled Japan's... highest in the world. And that makes us less competitive for businesses (foreign or domestic) investment, period.
Our manufacturing, R&D, etc would still be here if ridiculous Union contracts didn't make it damn near impossible to afford. You think companies like uprooting and going to Mexico or Ecuador? They'd rather stay here but they can't afford it.
| quote: | | Japan has even been suffering 20 years of stagnation and "bad" economic times, and the standard of living there is way higher than it is in the US, even the US at the best of its times. |
It's not in "better" shape, it's in a different kind of "bad shape" than the USA. What happens when they find out they can no longer borrow at 1% from a captive bond market? Every auction of Japanese govt. bonds will be big news and get ugly fast. Once the dam breaks, debt service costs will rip the budget to shreads. The Bank of Japan will pull the emergency lever and print a ton of money. Then they'll flip from deflation to hyperinflation. Peace out, yen.
It is a slow motion train wreck waiting to happen, and you're looking at a snapshot of it from a week long visit and singing its praises. Just stop talking about anything related to economics, standards of living, markets, and business in general. You look like a fool. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| The corporate culture in japan is ing horrible nou. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
You're dead wrong on the exploitation meme. That is a pathetic notion drilled into your head through years of Statist public school education; that America is the problem, and anyone who has profited through business has done so unethically on the backs of the less fortunate. I'll forgive you for this because you truly, honestly have no iota of understanding of business or market principals. |
Ok, go hang out with the truthers and the 9/11 conspiracy freaks you ing psychopath.
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
What the hell? Japan's debt is over 200% of GDP! They print more than 100% of tax revenues each year! STELLAR ING MODEL smart guy. The only reason they haven't imploded yet is because they don't have nearly the risk of foreign flight from its debt market like we do. But their model is still unsustainable. Our corporate tax rate has now equaled Japan's... highest in the world. And that makes us less competitive for businesses (foreign or domestic) investment, period.
Our manufacturing, R&D, etc would still be here if ridiculous Union contracts didn't make it damn near impossible to afford. You think companies like uprooting and going to Mexico or Ecuador? They'd rather stay here but they can't afford it.
It's not in "better" shape, it's in a different kind of "bad shape" than the USA. What happens when they find out they can no longer borrow at 1% from a captive bond market? Every auction of Japanese govt. bonds will be big news and get ugly fast. Once the dam breaks, debt service costs will rip the budget to shreads. The Bank of Japan will pull the emergency lever and print a ton of money. Then they'll flip from deflation to hyperinflation. Peace out, yen.
It is a slow motion train wreck waiting to happen, and you're looking at a snapshot of it from a week long visit and singing its praises. Just stop talking about anything related to economics, standards of living, markets, and business in general. You look like a fool. |
Japan has been stagnate for 20 years and their standard of living is better than ours, we had a recession for TWO years and we ing fell apart at the seems, millions going homeless, millions out of jobs, capital in all sectors freezing and drying up.
Since capitalism is all working the books anyways for the most part, obviously Japan either has a better model or they are just smarter than us.
Did you ever step back and think that maybe, since all these countries have huge debts, the US, Canada, most European countries, and Japan, that the whole system is ed, and maybe not one we should think about staying on?
Either way Kevin, you are still of the libertarian retardism mindset that taxes do nothing for anyone, so like I said lets get rid of the government (the courts and the police too) and I'll come over there and we'll see who owns your company at the end of the day. ;) |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
The corporate culture in japan is ing horrible nou. |
Yet their standard of living is much higher, and this is not only from my one week stay, but something my brother believes very much and he has spent a good chunk of the last 5 years in Japan.
I'd take a hive minded culture like the Japanese over the that we have here... PKC have you ever visited the US, do you really understand how utterly and totally this place is?
In Japan people understand their place, in the US no one is happy with it and they are constantly trying to get more, even if they never will and it hurts the rest of us because of their trying. |
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| enydo |
| Oh man, I'm so glad this thread got painful. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
Kevin, do you think that fire departments should be privatized because they can not turn a profit? How about police?
How about highways and other road systems? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Yet their standard of living is much higher |
Of course it is. People work a bajillion hours a day for the honour of their company. In japan CEOs commit suicide when their company does something wrong, in the US they get golden parachutes.
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
I'd take a hive minded culture like the Japanese over the that we have here... PKC have you ever visited the US, do you really understand how utterly and totally this place is? |
Haha, I do know your minimum wage is a disgrace.
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
In Japan people understand their place, in the US no one is happy with it and they are constantly trying to get more, even if they never will and it hurts the rest of us because of their trying. |
Perhaps, but I think it is problematic to extrapolate broad economic truths between the two countries due to the vastly different cultural influences. Just because something works in japan doesn’t mean it would work anywhere else. |
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