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Do you make the kick the lowest frequency in your track? (pg. 2)
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| skyhunter |
| Okay, it just looks REALLY crazy, and yea just the kick. I'm interested now, usually I just cut mids... |
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| skullyzempire |
Im fairly new to production myself.I was watching a Warbeats tut a while back and the guy mentioned if u take #1 and #7 drag them down and out so to speak it helps cut off unwanted ranges.If im wrong please correct me like i stated before im new myself and have alot to learn.Hope this helps.
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| dj_alfi |
| I usually have my kicks occupying from around 40-50 upwards to around 3-400 hz, then a little dip and some boost around the thousands. And I roll off the highest of highs. It depends alot on the track really. |
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| Richard Butler |
Ok this thread has taught me to try a kik with the main beef around 55, I'm going to try that. Until now I thought that was a no no, as so many 'experts' had said cut all the below 50 or 40, so I had just guessed a kick arounf 50 / 50 would be a no go.
This could be part of the answer as to why my low end has always lacked something. |
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| skyhunter |
| quote: | Originally posted by skullyzempire
Im fairly new to production myself.I was watching a Warbeats tut a while back and the guy mentioned if u take #1 and #7 drag them down and out so to speak it helps cut off unwanted ranges.If im wrong please correct me like i stated before im new myself and have alot to learn.Hope this helps.
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You speak truth. However, I often make the low cut really steep to assure no SUB BASS POWER is lost and leave the hi cut off, simply because my kicks always have a bit of high end punch cause I always layer the out of them. |
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| DJ RANN |
Wow, there's some weird info in this thread.
I try not to have anything below 50 hz in my tracks - I can't imagine what low content is happening in there to have the main content at PEAK 45hz.
I mean it's not bad as such, but most prosumer and especially smaller monitors don't represent well (if at all) below 80hz so It's going to sound like crap both on a home system and club unless you hear those frequencies properly and EQ them accordingly.
As for the EQ shelf discussion, I generally shelve with a 48db slope so it's all dropping away below 50hz - don't forget, 50hz is real, low sub frequency - bear in mind the standard for professional live sound engineers is anything below 100hz is considered sub frequencies. The lowest threshold for speakers is 20hz, and most actually don't go that low, so 50hz is really in the lowest register.
Finally, the lower down you go, the greater the inaccuracy of the reproduction, in THD - at higher frequencies, we consider 1% the threshold for accuracy - with subs down to 20hz, 10% THD is considered acceptable.
What I'm saying is, be careful with sub frequency - it's difficult to get it right even with perfect equipment and room treatment, and if in doubt, err on the side of caution and leave it out. You'll end up ing up your track rather than enhancing it. |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Wow, there's some weird info in this thread.
I try not to have anything below 50 hz in my tracks - I can't imagine what low content is happening in there to have the main content at PEAK 45hz.
I mean it's not bad as such, but most prosumer and especially smaller monitors don't represent well (if at all) below 80hz so It's going to sound like crap both on a home system and club unless you hear those frequencies properly and EQ them accordingly.
As for the EQ shelf discussion, I generally shelve with a 48db slope so it's all dropping away below 50hz - don't forget, 50hz is real, low sub frequency - bear in mind the standard for professional live sound engineers is anything below 100hz is considered sub frequencies. The lowest threshold for speakers is 20hz, and most actually don't go that low, so 50hz is really in the lowest register.
Finally, the lower down you go, the greater the inaccuracy of the reproduction, in THD - at higher frequencies, we consider 1% the threshold for accuracy - with subs down to 20hz, 10% THD is considered acceptable.
What I'm saying is, be careful with sub frequency - it's difficult to get it right even with perfect equipment and room treatment, and if in doubt, err on the side of caution and leave it out. You'll end up ing up your track rather than enhancing it. |
Yeah, OK, so I see what you are saying with all that. In some ways I agree with you, especially when it comes to the frequency reproduction of smaller or prosumer speakers.
That being said, every time I put a track from a well respected producer or label through a spectrum analyzer, there is quite often a TON going on below 50Hz. I'm talking the high level labels like Anjunadeep, Enormous Tunes, etc. They all have these gentle roll offs, but they are definitely not just 48db/oct'd out. Looks more like carefully controlled 12 or 24db roll offs.
I've recently been paying a hell of a lot more attention to that low, low frequency range, and it seems to be giving my tracks a bit more "balls" for lack of a better term. Granted, I probably have a better capability to reproduce those frequencies that most, but I can still tell the difference.
Seems to me the name of the game down there is control, instead of just cutting it out completely. Make sure the only elements playing down there are bass and kick (Elipsis 6 everything else below 120), and have a nice sub-kick or sub-bass that gently rolls off. That seems to be working well for me anyway.
Just one perspective... |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Yeah, OK, so I see what you are saying with all that. In some ways I agree with you, especially when it comes to the frequency reproduction of smaller or prosumer speakers.
That being said, every time I put a track from a well respected producer or label through a spectrum analyzer, there is quite often a TON going on below 50Hz. I'm talking the high level labels like Anjunadeep, Enormous Tunes, etc. They all have these gentle roll offs, but they are definitely not just 48db/oct'd out. Looks more like carefully controlled 12 or 24db roll offs.
I've recently been paying a hell of a lot more attention to that low, low frequency range, and it seems to be giving my tracks a bit more "balls" for lack of a better term. Granted, I probably have a better capability to reproduce those frequencies that most, but I can still tell the difference.
Seems to me the name of the game down there is control, instead of just cutting it out completely. Make sure the only elements playing down there are bass and kick (Elipsis 6 everything else below 120), and have a nice sub-kick or sub-bass that gently rolls off. That seems to be working well for me anyway.
Just one perspective... |
agree with the last paragraph, if you get the sub-bass/kick relationship right that will help make your track sound really big
In regards to comparing tracks by using an analyser....i dont trust those things, i think a better way is to load a track into sequencer/audio editor and put a 50hz high-pass filter on and see if that takes away anything
i dont high-pass my kicks, i just play with the decay on the envelope - however sub-bass gets high-passed at 50hz upwards..... |
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| derail |
| I'm with Eric. I control the range below 50 rather than cutting it completely. My reference tracks all have a decent amount going on down there. I'd assume there are big systems at some clubs which are capable of going down that low. |
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| skyhunter |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
I'm with Eric. I control the range below 50 rather than cutting it completely. My reference tracks all have a decent amount going on down there. I'd assume there are big systems at some clubs which are capable of going down that low. |
Yea, I only go down to 40-45 because 50 sounds too much like a "tone" rather then a BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM that causes the SUB BASS to make all the kids with their SKULLCANDEHS say "OH MY GAWD DUDE THIS BASS IS SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
or something..
I agree however, if you have it too messy it just sounds bad (but those kids with their skullcandehs don't know that) |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
agree with the last paragraph, if you get the sub-bass/kick relationship right that will help make your track sound really big
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| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
In regards to comparing tracks by using an analyser....i dont trust those things,
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You might want to start. Spectrum Analysis is about the only thing that WON'T lie to you. I can't say the same thing for your room, your speakers or your converters.
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
i think a better way is to load a track into sequencer/audio editor and put a 50hz high-pass filter on and see if that takes away anything
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Except that by doing that you are trusting that your speakers are revealing everything to you, which, unless you have a perfectly treated room with a tuned sub, they probably aren't.
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
i dont high-pass my kicks, i just play with the decay on the envelope - however sub-bass gets high-passed at 50hz upwards..... |
Hey man if it is getting the sound you want and it works for you great.
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
I'm with Eric. I control the range below 50 rather than cutting it completely. My reference tracks all have a decent amount going on down there. I'd assume there are big systems at some clubs which are capable of going down that low. |
Precisely.
| quote: | Originally posted by skyhunter
I agree however, if you have it too messy it just sounds bad (but those kids with their skullcandehs don't know that) |
Begin able to control that area is one of the things that separates the men from the boys. |
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