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Toronto: still one of most fraking expensive places to live (pg. 2)
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| CMR |
| quote: | Originally posted by jon jon
ok ok miami was a bad example |
Chicago is also a lot cheaper.
Berlin seems cheaper as well, as least when you consider the higher (minimum) wages. |
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| KaiLee |
Can definitely see why Sydney is on there the housing market is INSANE at the moment. I'm also quite surprised Melbourne isn't on the list.
We pay $400 AUD a week for a small two bedroom apartment that's about 40 years old and takes about an hour to get to the city by public transport and 90 minutes (at least) by car. Granted it's been refurbished and looks very nice you could get a two bedroom house for less than that about 10 kms away.
Public transport is expensive as well. I pay $8.00 a day to travel to uni and work and the system is . Customers are actually considering paying more to ensure the trains are on time and there are less cancellations during peak hour.
In terms of food it's so expensive here in Melbourne. $15.99 for a kg of bananas and $4.99 for a bag of lettuce. Lamb is generally quite cheap but the meats here are never below $8.00 for 500g. Granted when the AUD was low it was great but now that it's so high this place is so costly.
Sure Australia has high wages but it's still not enough to sustain the cost of living unless you're making over 60k a year. |
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| Billche |
| quote: | Originally posted by jon jon
or New York???
Toronto is WAY cheaper to live/own property/work than NYC or London, or Chicago or Miami... or Berlin, or Paris. hahah or am I missing something when reading that list? |
I'm pretty sure they are just working with averages. Toronto may be cheaper then Manhattan, but the Toronto average is probably higher then the other 4 'burbs. I bet there would be huge differences if they divvied it up by suburb. |
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| Euphorica |
NYC may be high but you amke more money there... no ifs ands or buts. Your wage is adjusted if you move there so while overall real estate is much higher...so is your pay.
thats why toronto ranks so high. prices going up and up and up(damn it crash happen already wont for a while thanks low interest rates) among all other prices going...and all of our wages are the same they wouldve been 10 yrs ago.
we are getting smoked. |
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| jester |
What is interesting, that UBS puts up two columns in their PDF file. Rankings with-out calculating the rent price and one with counting the rent price. Toronto more expensive than New York without the rent prices, but with the rent prices New York is more expensive than Toronto.
Domestic purchasing power (Annual net income*)
1. Zurich - 106.9
2. Miami - 101.8
4. New York - 100.0
6. Sydney - 97.1
10. Montreal - 84.1
12. Toronto - 80.7
* excludes rent.
Price levels (incl. rent)
1. Oslo - 108.9
2. Geneva - 106.5
3. Zurich - 105.5
4. New York - 100.0
5. Tokyo - 94.2
9. Singapore - 88.3
10. Paris - 82.8
12. London - 82.5
13. Toronto - 82.1
--. Montreal - 77.6
PDF
Plus seeing they left out Vancouver, Moscow, Honolulu and others, you can't really tell where everything really ranks. It still gives you a good impression, how Toronto, Montreal and New York compare to each other. |
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| -g- |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
List looked off to me too, but it's all how they calculate things like what stats to use and how to weight them. Same with those "Best Standard of Living" style city studies. |
Not exactly.
The main reason the list looks the way it does is because of currency fluctuations. that really has nothing to do with anything in reality for buying power unless you're truly living in 50 different countries in the course of a year.
Examples: The Aussie and Canadian dollars have risen exceptionally highly over the past 2 years and the US dropped. For this reason mainly you'll see NY lower than Toronto and Sydney.
However, it should be pointed out that even accounting for this, the study's analysis is incorrect insofar as Toronto is concerned, and would imagine others as well. Going by the study's own numbers:
Toronto's relative price and wage levels, as a function out of 100 (100 being the defacto price level of living in NY, including rent):
Toronto's Wage Levels: 88.4
Toronto's Price Levels: 82.1
So yes, we have less purchasing power, but our price levels are even lower, by a margin of -6.3%, compared to NY.
However if you exclude rent(though why one would exclude the most basic cost of living is a mystery to me), you have the following:
Toronto's Wage Levels: 88.4
Toronto's Price Levels: 102.8
In this case, one could very fishily argue that NY is less expensive, simply because their net margin is zero, whereas ours would be +14.4%
I would also add that the way they figure out rather nebulous terms such as "price levels" is through a typical consumerist basket of commodities, but fails to take into account service costs, such as, oh, say, health care.
And this would be second reason why NY is 'less' expensive to live - their net wage levels do not include taxes that go towards health care, and yet their price levels don't commensurately account for this. That would be a no-no for consistency.
Also, the reason why Oslo is so expensive - their tax rate is the highest in the world, so their net wage levels are lower. However, they enjoy public services that they never directly pay for out of pocket. |
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| Jayx1 |
| this is based on what people can afford based on what they earn. Id say this is pretty accurate. We get taxed to death on top of the gigantic cost of living compared to what we earn (especially net) |
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| TheVrk |
| quote: | Originally posted by jon jon
or Berlin, or Paris. |
Paris is ef super expensive...but isn't Berlin known for how much cheaper things generally are there comparing to other western metropolises'? |
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| Capo di tutti |
Miami is not expensive...in fact real estate is a ing dream...multiple condos downtown namely ones surrounded where the heat play have foreclosed and the prices are almost laughable...made sense when alot of the DT and SoBe population have sweet rides and a nice place...
I'll add that SoFi in SoBe hasn't lost much value on their real estate as I seen many 1 and 2 bedrooms listed from 1 to around 2.5ish million. |
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| -g- |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
this is based on what people can afford based on what they earn. Id say this is pretty accurate. We get taxed to death on top of the gigantic cost of living compared to what we earn (especially net) |
it only accounts for commodity expenditures, and doesn't account into services such as health care, nor fee-based resources such as road tolls, etc.
for this reason it is no surprise that fee-based service economies such as the US play out favourably, if not accurately.
moreover, since it employs a currency of choice(the Euro) as a basis of comparison, it favours countries whose currency has devalued in recent time(the US) and is biased against those currencies that have increased, in a relative sense(Canada). |
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| jester |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capo di tutti
Miami is not expensive...in fact real estate is a ing dream...multiple condos downtown namely ones surrounded where the heat play have foreclosed and the prices are almost laughable...made sense when alot of the DT and SoBe population have sweet rides and a nice place...
I'll add that SoFi in SoBe hasn't lost much value on their real estate as I seen many 1 and 2 bedrooms listed from 1 to around 2.5ish million. |
I found such a sweet place in Downtown Miami. 2 bedroom / 2 bathroom with over 1000 sq.ft for like $175,000 in a condo built in 2007. It is just minutes walk from where the Miami Heat play and it has the rail line connected to it. Even in South Beach you can find some deals for places :)
Plus a while back, I saw an article saying that Miami housing prices will only recover by 2016, if I remember correctly.
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| -g- |
| quote: | Originally posted by jester
I found such a sweet place in Downtown Miami. 2 bedroom / 2 bathroom with over 1000 sq.ft for like $175,000 in a condo built in 2007. It is just minutes walk from where the Miami Heat play and it has the rail line connected to it.
Plus a while back, I saw an article saying that Miami housing prices will only recover by 2016, if I remember correctly.
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, you're not lying when you say the rail line is 'connected' to it.
wow, that's incredible. makes you think about buying a place down there just to have for semi-frequent holidays. |
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