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Steve Jobs resigns as Apple CEO... (pg. 3)
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| BshidoHEAT |
| Sean, I have a Touchpad as well any DJ/Producer app that I should get? |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Seandroid
Your logic still makes no sense even if you DO think Flash operates well with touch screens, (and frankly you're wrong,) Apple allows Netflix, Hulu, Kindle and and a bunch of "competing" media applications on the App store, and those are free apps bar Hulu Plus. Flash is buggy, slow and kills your battery life among other things. Videos that require the space bar to play? Don't work. Anything that requires you to hover over something doesn't work because you're either touching the screen or you're not...
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What are you talking about? I use flash based websites and content 100 times a day on my HTC touchscreen HD2. No ing problem at all. And why the do you need to use a spacebar? Just press the play arrow found on every flash player I have ever used. Now I agree, those rich content sites which you need to hover over don't work, but that's an absurd reason for flash not to be allowed on the platform.
Speak to any web developer worth their salt and they'll tell you those rich flash platform sites are a thing of the past. Firstly if someone has a non flash computer of a slow (mobile) connection, they don't get to see the site so you have to program a complete HTML version of the site as well, secondly flash is absolutely useless for SEO, so basically for any physical business, flash is actually detrimental to finding your business (no keywords are indexed etc).
Apple knows all this information so it's not about rubbish like being buggy or lack of spacebar etc.
Battery life is a moot point anyway - ask the 10's of millions of iphone users about battery life - it doesn't put them off, nor me with only 10 hours of battery life on my HTC. People don't go "I'm not going to install flash because it kills battery life".
Apple increases the value of their hardware by allowing the apps you mentioned, in exactly the same way they poured millions in to itunes to sell ipods. Now combine that with the fact that for all subscription services on iOS, Apple requires in app purchases resulting in apples standard 30% cut from ever subscriber....that's a nice revenue stream from the content suppliers and no extra cost to the consumers.
| quote: | Originally posted by Seandroid
If you honestly think that Apple would EVER ban Flash from OS X you're nuts, Apple doesn't control software on the Mac, and Apple DID stop including flash with the operating system in Lion. You have to install it manually now. If Apple ever tried that there would be public outrage because it's not the same as a mobile phone OS.
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They don't ban it, they just leverage their considerable relationship with Adobe so that it never gets produced. Ans I don't know what you're talking about : flash was not included on any of my three previous versions of OSX?
And yes, people might complain about it not being the same experience, but that would be far less than the amount of people complaining about lack of flash on iOS devices. In fact it's one of the biggest selling points of competing devices. Just watch the commercials.
| quote: | Originally posted by Seandroid
What the hell? By your logic flash would make MORE people buy iPads, how do you suppose that would kill the revenue stream? Apple doesn't even do subscription streaming deals with the TV studios, the ONLY way to watch TV on your iPad is buying the show, downloading it and storing it on the device's internal memory.
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As posted above, it would kill revenue from itunes, and even though it may boost ipad sales, they don't have a problem selling them right without flash now do they? And yes they do have subscription deals due to the sub cut from in app purchases etc.
| quote: | Originally posted by Seandroid
And once again you're completely wrong about iTunes revenue:
http://allthingsd.com/20100225/appl...ot-much-profit/
"Apple is patting itself on the back for delivering 10 billion songs from its iTunes Store. And it frequently boasts about the number of apps customers download from iTunes, as well–the tally is now past three billion.
But you won’t hear Apple boast about how much money it’s making from iTunes. Because there’s not much to boast about.
Even at today’s hyper volume, the digital store is still running at “a bit over break-even,” the company reminded analysts during its earnings call last month." |
You're not proving a point here - the last sentence of that artical states "4bn NET profit" from what itunes is lumped together with. You do realise what NET profit is don't you? Not to mention that artical is over 18 months old.
Here's some more recent ones:
http://www.businessinsider.com/appl...nue-2013-2011-7
http://www.macstories.net/news/appl...ion-ipads-sold/
In that last one, Itunes revenue for the 1st quarter of 2011 is a staggering 1.1bn.
It won't "boast" because as I said before, it's pale in comparison to the revenue it generates from other streams, not to mention that purposely does not give official figures of each division.
Seriously, I'm not arguing for the sake of it - Apple did not become the most valued (share) company by luck. This is business at it's most aggressive and you have to realise that these decisions are purposeful, not due to programming limitations or buggy software or battery life. |
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| Seandroid |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
What are you talking about? I use flash based websites and content 100 times a day on my HTC touchscreen HD2. No ing problem at all. And why the do you need to use a spacebar? Just press the play arrow found on every flash player I have ever used. Now I agree, those rich content sites which you need to hover over don't work, but that's an absurd reason for flash not to be allowed on the platform.
Speak to any web developer worth their salt and they'll tell you those rich flash platform sites are a thing of the past. Firstly if someone has a non flash computer of a slow (mobile) connection, they don't get to see the site so you have to program a complete HTML version of the site as well, secondly flash is absolutely useless for SEO, so basically for any physical business, flash is actually detrimental to finding your business (no keywords are indexed etc).
Apple knows all this information so it's not about rubbish like being buggy or lack of spacebar etc.
Battery life is a moot point anyway - ask the 10's of millions of iphone users about battery life - it doesn't put them off, nor me with only 10 hours of battery life on my HTC. People don't go "I'm not going to install flash because it kills battery life".
Apple increases the value of their hardware by allowing the apps you mentioned, in exactly the same way they poured millions in to itunes to sell ipods. Now combine that with the fact that for all subscription services on iOS, Apple requires in app purchases resulting in apples standard 30% cut from ever subscriber....that's a nice revenue stream from the content suppliers and no extra cost to the consumers.
They don't ban it, they just leverage their considerable relationship with Adobe so that it never gets produced. Ans I don't know what you're talking about : flash was not included on any of my three previous versions of OSX?
And yes, people might complain about it not being the same experience, but that would be far less than the amount of people complaining about lack of flash on iOS devices. In fact it's one of the biggest selling points of competing devices. Just watch the commercials.
As posted above, it would kill revenue from itunes, and even though it may boost ipad sales, they don't have a problem selling them right without flash now do they? And yes they do have subscription deals due to the sub cut from in app purchases etc.
You're not proving a point here - the last sentence of that artical states "4bn NET profit" from what itunes is lumped together with. You do realise what NET profit is don't you? Not to mention that artical is over 18 months old.
Here's some more recent ones:
http://www.businessinsider.com/appl...nue-2013-2011-7
http://www.macstories.net/news/appl...ion-ipads-sold/
In that last one, Itunes revenue for the 1st quarter of 2011 is a staggering 1.1bn.
It won't "boast" because as I said before, it's pale in comparison to the revenue it generates from other streams, not to mention that purposely does not give official figures of each division.
Seriously, I'm not arguing for the sake of it - Apple did not become the most valued (share) company by luck. This is business at it's most aggressive and you have to realise that these decisions are purposeful, not due to programming limitations or buggy software or battery life. |
There are still plenty of Flash videos and websites that require you to use the keyboard to play content, tonnes of them on Newgrounds require you to press space or "any key" to play it.
| quote: | | Speak to any web developer worth their salt and they'll tell you those rich flash platform sites are a thing of the past. Firstly if someone has a non flash computer of a slow (mobile) connection, they don't get to see the site so you have to program a complete HTML version of the site as well, secondly flash is absolutely useless for SEO, so basically for any physical business, flash is actually detrimental to finding your business (no keywords are indexed etc). |
Exactly Apple's point? How the hell do you not see that? One of the major reasons these sites are disappearing, which you ignored, is BECAUSE Apple's mobile devices don't support Flash. And the reason isn't because of their ing iTunes revenue stream.
HTML 5 is just as capable for providing streaming media content, and Apple is PUSHING it constantly! They had a page up on their site about why HTML5 is better. If your argument is that people won't buy music in iTunes if they've got access to VEVO and YouTube, then maybe you should pay attention to the fact that YouTube is included on the damn device and VEVO is a free application.
If there's anything absurd in your mention of battery life it's that you think users don't care about it. That's the most ridiculous thing you've said in this whole ordeal.
About Apple taking 30% of the subscription costs, that's not true, that was something Apple was GOING to do but never did, they changed the terms in the App store now so that you're just not allowed to place an external link to sign up for the subscription in the app. Netflix, Hulu, Kindle... none of them have in app purchases you just have to sign up for them in the web browser or on your computer.
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09...-subscriptions/
"11.14 Apps can read or play approved content (specifically magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, and video) that is subscribed to or purchased outside of the app, as long as there is no button or external link in the app to purchase the approved content. Apple will not receive any portion of the revenues for approved content that is subscribed to or purchased outside of the app"
| quote: | They don't ban it, they just leverage their considerable relationship with Adobe so that it never gets produced. Ans I don't know what you're talking about : flash was not included on any of my three previous versions of OSX?
And yes, people might complain about it not being the same experience, but that would be far less than the amount of people complaining about lack of flash on iOS devices. In fact it's one of the biggest selling points of competing devices. Just watch the commercials. |
Apple has no desire to take away the freedom from their Mac users to install Flash because it's a different ecosystem. Mac OS X is completely open, you can install whatever the hell you want because it's a different user experience than a mobile device.
And you're 100% wrong about Apple not including flash, there was an internet storm about Flash not being included in Lion:
http://www.mactrast.com/2011/02/mis...from-os-x-lion/
"Adobe Flash Player and Apple's Java Runtime Environment (JRE) are not included in new installations of Lion, but both can still be downloaded and installed manually.[66][69][70] Apple will no longer be actively maintaining its JRE, but Software Update will offer to download Snow Leopard's JRE if a user tries to run a Java program without there being a JRE installed.[71] Programs using Java are not allowed to be distributed via the Mac App Store.[68]"
from "dropped features" on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Lion
| quote: | | And yes they do have subscription deals due to the sub cut from in app purchases etc. |
Firstly, this no longer exists first of all, and secondly you said lucrative deals with major TV studios, not "in app purchases."
| quote: | | You're not proving a point here - the last sentence of that artical states "4bn NET profit" from what itunes is lumped together with. You do realise what NET profit is don't you? Not to mention that artical is over 18 months old. |
And you're completely forgetting that this includes Apple's App Store revenue which has absolutely nothing to do with your argument. Apple doesn't make anything from subscriptions because they've never been forcing developers to use in app purchases, and most of these content apps are free and just require you to sign up from an external source.
Apple is not trying to make more iTunes revenue, the only reason iTunes ever existed in the first place was to help sell *hardware.* |
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| skyhunter |
| The youtube is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo buggy on Ipod though, and it's just easier (IMO) to jailbreak and look at youtube normally. You aren't listed as a mobile device which is awesome |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by skyhunter
The youtube is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo buggy on Ipod though, and it's just easier (IMO) to jailbreak and look at youtube normally. You aren't listed as a mobile device which is awesome |
It's not just buggy, it's not the same experience. Try searching for certain strings - you'll get different results and that has been done on purpose.
You the have to factor in that 90% of normal users will never jailbreak their device so again, the fact that a cut down version of youtube is available does not impact this situtaion.
I'm not going to respond to all of your points but to summarize:
1, I've never actually used the spacebar for any flash content, Ever. Not once. And even if you did, it's always one simple click to do the same thing. Oh, and menus work perfectly, the only thing that doesn't is lame late 90's style flash sites that require you to hover over them.
2, You're simply wrong about about itunes revenue. Again, as I said before, Itunes NET profit (not appstore) was $570m in 2008. It's profit for 2011 will conservatively be double that based on the massive increase in itunes sales. You can argue all you want but any company making 1bn NET PROFIT in the music industry is killing it.
Again:
http://www.wired.com/listening_post...pple-apparentl/
3, Apple is pushing HTML 5 because it offers way more functionality and controls for content at the same time. You're naive if you think they're doing it to offer up free media.
4,Again, users don't care about battery life in the grand scheme. If they did the iphone would have been an unmitigated disaster. It has one of the shortest battery life of any smartphone ever made, yet is unbelievable popular.
5, Apple do get 30% of all in subscription purchases. Just nothing for external ones. For the people who don't know any better (many mac users buy them due to simplicity) Apple will get 30%.
As you can see, Itunes makes apple a stack of money, it's only increasing and they want to protect that by steering paid for content (itunes, hulu, etc) to their mobile devices. It's worth it to their business model to allow an open platform on their OSX machines, but not to their iOS model. If you don't believe it, I don't care but the facts are out there, and apple for all their faults, don't make mistakes when it comes to business moves. |
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| Seandroid |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
It's not just buggy, it's not the same experience. Try searching for certain strings - you'll get different results and that has been done on purpose.
You the have to factor in that 90% of normal users will never jailbreak their device so again, the fact that a cut down version of youtube is available does not impact this situtaion.
I'm not going to respond to all of your points but to summarize:
1, I've never actually used the spacebar for any flash content, Ever. Not once. And even if you did, it's always one simple click to do the same thing. Oh, and menus work perfectly, the only thing that doesn't is lame late 90's style flash sites that require you to hover over them.
2, You're simply wrong about about itunes revenue. Again, as I said before, Itunes NET profit (not appstore) was $570m in 2008. It's profit for 2011 will conservatively be double that based on the massive increase in itunes sales. You can argue all you want but any company making 1bn NET PROFIT in the music industry is killing it.
Again:
http://www.wired.com/listening_post...pple-apparentl/
3, Apple is pushing HTML 5 because it offers way more functionality and controls for content at the same time. You're naive if you think they're doing it to offer up free media.
4,Again, users don't care about battery life in the grand scheme. If they did the iphone would have been an unmitigated disaster. It has one of the shortest battery life of any smartphone ever made, yet is unbelievable popular.
5, Apple do get 30% of all in subscription purchases. Just nothing for external ones. For the people who don't know any better (many mac users buy them due to simplicity) Apple will get 30%.
As you can see, Itunes makes apple a stack of money, it's only increasing and they want to protect that by steering paid for content (itunes, hulu, etc) to their mobile devices. It's worth it to their business model to allow an open platform on their OSX machines, but not to their iOS model. If you don't believe it, I don't care but the facts are out there, and apple for all their faults, don't make mistakes when it comes to business moves. |
1. Apple isn't going to half ass anything, that's my entire argument. It has to work perfectly or they're not even going to bother, and what they're doing is pushing flash out anyway, Adobe has already created new software to develop HTML 5 content in a flash-like way.
2. You completely misread what I said about iTunes store sales. I said that their NET profit includes the App store and is a totally misleading representation of how much they make off of music and media sales which is peanuts to them.
3. Apple is pushing HTML 5 because it's an open standard and far less buggy than Flash. I never said they were doing it for "Free media..."
4. What the ? Shortest battery life? Are you on coke? The iPhone has way better battery life than 90% of the Android smart phones out there. Ever used an Evo? And the iPad lasts 11 hours of constantly playing video... My Touchpad supposedly has the same battery life but when I stream flash content it RUINS it. My battery dies in like 1/4 of the time it normally does.
5. NO THEY DON'T LOL. That's exactly what I just said! LOOK:
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09...-subscriptions/
Subscription based apps are NOT REQUIRED to have in app purchases, and none of them do! Netflix doesn't, Hulu doesn't, Kindle doesn't, Rhapsody doesn't... Apple makes NO MONEY from that! They're just not allowed to have a link that sends the user outside the app to buy it.
The reason for banning Flash has nothing to do with money. I'm not saying Apple isn't the best company in the world in regards to business decisions, I'm an absolutely MASSIVE Apple fan, I have 2 Macs, an iPhone and I'll be buying an iPad imminently, I just think you're wrong about why they're not allowing flash on their mobile devices.
(........because you are ;) ) |
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| skyhunter |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
It's not just buggy, it's not the same experience. Try searching for certain strings - you'll get different results and that has been done on purpose.
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"Buggy" was my catch-all that prevented me from writing about three paragraphs.
I am a lazy american you know :P |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Seandroid
1. Apple isn't going to half ass anything, that's my entire argument. It has to work perfectly or they're not even going to bother, and what they're doing is pushing flash out anyway, Adobe has already created new software to develop HTML 5 content in a flash-like way.
2. You completely misread what I said about iTunes store sales. I said that their NET profit includes the App store and is a totally misleading representation of how much they make off of music and media sales which is peanuts to them.
3. Apple is pushing HTML 5 because it's an open standard and far less buggy than Flash. I never said they were doing it for "Free media..."
4. What the ? Shortest battery life? Are you on coke? The iPhone has way better battery life than 90% of the Android smart phones out there. Ever used an Evo? And the iPad lasts 11 hours of constantly playing video... My Touchpad supposedly has the same battery life but when I stream flash content it RUINS it. My battery dies in like 1/4 of the time it normally does.
5. NO THEY DON'T LOL. That's exactly what I just said! LOOK:
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09...-subscriptions/
Subscription based apps are NOT REQUIRED to have in app purchases, and none of them do! Netflix doesn't, Hulu doesn't, Kindle doesn't, Rhapsody doesn't... Apple makes NO MONEY from that! They're just not allowed to have a link that sends the user outside the app to buy it.
The reason for banning Flash has nothing to do with money. I'm not saying Apple isn't the best company in the world in regards to business decisions, I'm an absolutely MASSIVE Apple fan, I have 2 Macs, an iPhone and I'll be buying an iPad imminently, I just think you're wrong about why they're not allowing flash on their mobile devices.
(........because you are ;) ) |
OK so you've dropped the spacebar thing, but won't let the buggy thing go because apparently it ruins battery life on smartphones, which is weak but I'll keep going anyway....
my point is that the iphone has less than 1 full day usage, which compared to my cooked rom HTC running android is marginally worse (but not much). So "way worse" equals 6 hours as opposed to 10 hours? C'mon now, be serious.
You're also confirming that battery life is not an issue by saying Android smartphones have terrible battery life but then how come they own 48% of the market and are by far the most popular platform for smartphones? Cake or eat it, not both.
Therefore, proving my point - battery life does not matter in comparison to functionality as people have voted with their purchases and will buy something with crap battery life if it offers them good functionality in other areas.
Furthermore which bit don't you get: an in app sub will make apple 30%, so if like many of the apple users out there, they're not savvy enough to buy it elsewhere, apple get their normal 30%. All they did was remove the mandatory requirement from suppliers for out of app subs.
Finally, those figures I posted before are ONLY itunes net profit, not appstore profit combined. Still think Itunes only breaks even? :toothless
If you still can't see it, we're just going to have to disagree on this.
.....because I'm right :p |
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| cryophonik |
| Oh god, what th f### did I start? :p |
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| Storyteller |
| nice rants here. Keep it up. Apple is peaking right now but andriod is surely taking over most of it at some point. It's already happening in the mobile market right now. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
nice rants here. Keep it up. Apple is peaking right now but andriod is surely taking over most of it at some point. It's already happening in the mobile market right now. |
I think you meant RANNts ;) |
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| Storyteller |
| Crossing my fingers and wishing for cronodevir to blow this one up beyond the scale of epicness! |
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