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break / build-up (pg. 4)
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| madmuso |
when I first started listening to trance/dance and writing my own songs I couldnt work out why pro tracks had such depth, movement and just an overall great energy, yet they sounded (like so many great tracks) so simple, like there was nothing to it, well wasnt I wrong!
I ditched the studio and sat down with a pen and stave paper and drew in some bars/measures. I put on a song I liked and as it played I marked on the bars/measures (with my own symbols) where things were coming in and out, in order to get everything down I had to listen to the song a million times but it was worth it. By the end I couldnt believe how much was going on and how clever it was. It also helped me see what was happening arrangement wise. In a way, you are "reverse engineering" a product to see how its done. Doesnt mean you have to copy it, but you can apply the things you learn to your own songs with your own twist.
give it a try, you'll be surprised. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
That's just bad advice because every producer learns by trying to copy someone else.
Burial tried to copy El B, but failed and ended up with his own sound. |
It's not an issue of whether you copy someone/something else. That is self-evidently part of the learning process for any artist, and it's not even in dispute here. What I'm talking about is what you try to copy. El B was an original and innovative producer in his own right, he was not a "formula". Try telling Burial that "structure is more or less set in stone". What the are you going to learn from deliberately trying to recreate generic breakdowns? How to make a generic breakdown. That's not "interesting and involving", it's bland and boring. By all means, copy the out of people, but don't copy the out of formulaic, predictable, inane records under some mistaken assumption that you're thereby following the rules. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
It's not an issue of whether you copy someone/something else. That is self-evidently part of the learning process for any artist, and it's not even in dispute here. What I'm talking about is what you try to copy. El B was an original and innovative producer in his own right, he was not a "formula". Try telling Burial that "structure is more or less set in stone". What the are you going to learn from deliberately trying to recreate generic breakdowns? How to make a generic breakdown. That's not "interesting and involving", it's bland and boring. By all means, copy the out of people, but don't copy the out of formulaic, predictable, inane records under some mistaken assumption that you're thereby following the rules. |
So only copy the producers System J likes? |
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| Energy_3 |
| quote: | Originally posted by future_newbie
I understand your advice on being creative trying to avoid a formula, but sincerely...how could I break the rules if I don't even know them.
At the stage I am, would be happy if I could simply finish a track!
I've tried to replicate some breaks, but mine were somehow souless and cold. That's why I asked for the common filters and fx used in breaks. Most of the times it doesn't seem simply a rising cutoff filter. And I guess a key role could play a melody of 3 or more chords?
Regarding the build-up, I am really at 0.
1/16 + volume automation? Is it just that? And what instrument should I use?
As you see I really miss the basics. These things are probably a joke for many of you.
And specials thanks to DjRyan for his great practical advices. That's what I need. |
Approach with a plan in mind, keep it simple to avoid complications. So many bars for an intro, then into a break down or no, or continue with incremental changes. Your possibilities are endless. Map it out, create a lead sound, riff etc, loop it over run it for so many bars, bring something else in. And, away you go! |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
So only copy the producers System J likes? |
I'm not much of an El B fan. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
What the are you going to learn from deliberately trying to recreate generic breakdowns? |
You'll learn how to make music. It's not up to you to decide for an artist what's worth learning about. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| No, but I'm free to give my own opinion on what makes interesting and involving music. I think your objections have more to do with me criticising something you like than anything else. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
No, but I'm free to give my own opinion on what makes interesting and involving music. I think your objections have more to do with me criticising something you like than anything else. |
Who does it help to tell someone that the music they want to make is something you're not going to like? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
Who does it help to tell someone that the music they want to make is something you're not going to like? |
At what point anywhere before I replied did he say he wanted to make any particular kind of music or any particular kind of breakdown? He didn't mention any particular genre, which is why I mentioned dubstep, drum 'n bass and electro house as examples in my reply. He didn't talk about any particular kind of breakdown. This is a complete assumption on your part. If someone asks for advice on what makes an interesting breakdown, it is totally fair and within my rights for me to give my personal opinion on what I like and don't like in a breakdown.
It's not even as if I've mentioned any producers who I think you should listen to, or criticised any producers I think make breakdowns. My points have been entirely generalised. How the can you sarcastically say "Only copy the producers SYSTEM-J likes"? |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
At what point anywhere before I replied did he say he wanted to make any particular kind of music or any particular kind of breakdown? |
This is Tranceaddict, so its completely fair to assume its trance. It's no different than if you went to a DnB forum, or Dubstep forum. |
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| Kysora |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
No, but I'm free to give my own opinion on what makes interesting and involving music. I think your objections have more to do with me criticising something you like than anything else. |
You're touting your opinions more like they're facts, instead of what they are: subjective, biased and not relevant to everyone.
The best part is, you don't even realize it. If you do I can't imagine why you'd ask this:
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
How the can you sarcastically say "Only copy the producers SYSTEM-J likes"? |
for starters:
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
By all means, copy the out of people, but don't copy the out of formulaic, predictable, inane records under some mistaken assumption that you're thereby following the rules. |
What you consider formulaic, predictable and inane is not the same for everyone else, which more or less makes your "advice" completely useless.
You also weren't being very general, you clearly made it seem like uplifting-style breakdowns (which I'll go ahead and assume you hate, which further explains why beatflux said what he said) are a bad idea unless they're rhythmless or don't introduce a main melody, despite those two things being defining characteristics of the genre.
It's really just the way you go about presenting your opinions in a way that makes them seem like they're more than that. They aren't. |
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| PlasticSoul |
| quote: | Originally posted by future_newbie
This is the hardest part in the process for me. Making a strong, interesting and involving breakdown/build-up.
My gaps are mainly "structural". I simply don't know how to make a build-up, what source should I use, which effects should I apply, how to start off the breakdown, with what, which filters are commonly used?
I tried to make a build-up with some percussions and hats, but it sounded awful/delusional...
Tried to construct a breakdown, but I ended up with something scordino and not consequential.
Help me to start from somewhere please. Anything would be helpful: tuts, own productions, suggestions etc...
How do you deal with it? What is your way of doing it? Please share it here! |
Read this:
http://www.musicradar.com/futuremus...le-today-246545
It will help you, for sure. You can find it on google...
Good luck and dont be lazy to read it all. |
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