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Need vs. Want (aka TA vs. GS)
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| cryophonik |
One thing I've noticed over the years is that TA and gearslutz are practically polar opposites when it comes to buying or recommending gear, software, etc. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on TA regarding an equipment or software purchase that didn't have several "you don't need that" sort of responses. And, if a newb comes on here and asks about buying a hardware synth, they practically get hammered.
Gearslutz, of course, is obviously all about excess. If a newb asks about buying hardware over there, yeah, he'll get some people suggesting starting with software instead. But, by and large, people will encourage going with hardware if he can afford it and if that's what he wants. After all, most musicians do learn to play on a hardware instrument, but for some reason, that notion seems to be lost here. The TA mentality seems to be that you should only buy what you need, regardless of what you want.
So, why the discrepancy here? Are TAs just that much more frugal?
Also, please note that this isn't intended to be another boring HW/SW debate, rather a need-vs-want debate, which can apply to someone wanting to buy expensive software as well, even though they may not need it. |
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| Kysora |
I think it's just the sort of people who'd be attracted to "tranceaddict" rather than "gearslutz". This forum implies a focus on the music, the other just the gear.. if you have GAS, and money, you'd probably check out gearslutz first.
I think people come here because they want to make music, and for most people, a $1,000 hardware compressor just isn't necessary to do that. If you want one, fine, but I think it's great that you'll usually get some cheap or even free alternatives that won't empty your bank account so quickly. |
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| Vector A |
| I think that TA is a younger crowd. This means that many of us either cannot afford hardware, or even if we can, we did not grow up using it or watching other people use it, so it is not the "natural" choice for us. |
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| DJ RANN |
I think both Ky and Vector are right.
It's an age thing to some degree (Dave excluded for obvious reason :p ) and that TA is about music and equipment, not just equipment.
I also feel there's a much more self regulatory dynamic to TA along with a certain level of common sense that creates a far more realistic outlook on what is needed.
Some of the threads I've seen on GS border on the plain ridiculous in terms of people arguing about the most imperceptible differences in kit, and they have soooooo much time and effort to do it as well.
gets pretty heated on here sometimes, but I've honestly seen 70 page threads, mainly with just two or three people arguing about the merits of a particular conversion chip on a DAC.
At that level, the temperature in the studio on a given day, or a knob being turned a fraction of a mm will have more baring on noise floor that what they spend days and 1000's of words arguing about will.
For all it's faults, TA has a certain sense and knowledge of people actually using kit for our particular uses, rather than ideological debates about advance quantum audio theory in a vacuum. A lot of people on here don't have huge bank accounts so it's about getting results with what you can afford, not what results are potentially available when you have unlimited funds and hifi audiophile mentality when it comes to decision making.
Of course, there's some very, very well versed people on GS, giving some cutting edge and sage wisdom, but I reckon 70% of the info and points made just don't really apply when you factor real world situations in to them. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
so I was banned from there just recently.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...undtrack-2.html
you have guys using gender as an insult. Yes, the subjugation of women and the atrocities they've had to endure is somehow a good insult . Worse is that I did not state my gender. I could of been female. What the is wrong with audio engineers and producers. I suppose that is what you get when the majority of people ion that field have no higher education, no ability to think and just and overall idiocy that would rival a republican any day of the week.
Again, there are exceptions. School isn't the only path to being a critical thinker but that semi to pro level is something I just can't handle.
VI is pretty much the only forum that doesn't have this influx of idiots. Trance addict , well I still love EDM and use electronic influence all the time so it is worth checking up. Pianoforum is full of christians. I personally know a few people that have been insulted on GS that are legends in their field. They post with a non de plume, you would be idiotic not to and people always say the same lame, lets see your . You have no idea how they have to swallow these baiting tactics because you have no idea how tempting it is for some of them to say , here is my IDMB. But that is just how it works.
Everyone is on GS. I mean everyone. They don't use their real name . THat doesn't mean you are trying to troll. It is just being smart. |
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| -FSP- |
I see gearslutz as more of a place where professionals go. I am a semi-hardcore hobbyist, I do not have the time or scrilla to invest in expensive gear.
If someone were to make a "what should i buy to make music, i want to be seriously good at this" thread, I personally would only recommend a Maschine, Ableton (or any DAW really) a good sample cd or a few of them, and 3 good commerical VSTs with a plethora of very good free vsts for someone starting out.
It has been proven that you do not need expensive hardware to get professional results. You can make songs in the box. I personally go the ITB route because I can't afford hardware, I don't like wires, and I like putting up a number of instances of a synth at any given time.
I'm also a fan of old techno and house, and those guys made songs with cheap gear: a 303, sh-101, 909, 808, 707, 505, an MPC, etc. If those guys can make great music with that gear, then I have absolutely no excuse to say "i suck because i don't have a virus" because my computer has more power and options than those guys in the late 80s and early-mid 90s. Since I consider myself from that school, I guess I'm the type who tries to do the best what little I have just like they did. |
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| orTof�nChiLd |
| i'm happy with what i bought |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I think both Ky and Vector are right. |
Yeah, they definitely raise valid points. I'll get back to more of my thoughts later - I'm on my way to drink a lot at our company holiday party. ;)
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
It's an age thing to some degree (Dave excluded for obvious reason :p )
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Hey, watch it, Tom. I have a grandson about your age who will dropkick your ass right back to London. :tongue3 |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
so I was banned from there just recently.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...undtrack-2.html
you have guys using gender as an insult. Yes, the subjugation of women and the atrocities they've had to endure is somehow a good insult . Worse is that I did not state my gender. I could of been female. What the is wrong with audio engineers and producers. I suppose that is what you get when the majority of people ion that field have no higher education, no ability to think and just and overall idiocy that would rival a republican any day of the week.
Again, there are exceptions. School isn't the only path to being a critical thinker but that semi to pro level is something I just can't handle.
VI is pretty much the only forum that doesn't have this influx of idiots. Trance addict , well I still love EDM and use electronic influence all the time so it is worth checking up. Pianoforum is full of christians. I personally know a few people that have been insulted on GS that are legends in their field. They post with a non de plume, you would be idiotic not to and people always say the same lame, lets see your . You have no idea how they have to swallow these baiting tactics because you have no idea how tempting it is for some of them to say , here is my IDMB. But that is just how it works.
Everyone is on GS. I mean everyone. They don't use their real name . THat doesn't mean you are trying to troll. It is just being smart. |
Banned? for what exactly. I'm actually amazed you kept you tone with those wankers, and tried to explain why both that film and score was so ing bad.
I've got to watch what I say, but you were spot on in that thread, especially when it came to the analysis of the Tron score and the state of similar scores. I have a feeling you were holding back on all the drama about tron ;) but one thing you HAVE to realise is that GS guys, especially those who are not in the industry or on the outskirts of it (and their dream is to be in there), will not tolerate negative comments about their god.
I honestly don't know what it is but there's this certain breed of wannabe/semi-pro engineers/amatuer film buffs & makers/etc who have such a hard on about Zimmer's score they just become completely skewed when someone slights any of his work. It's truly cultish. I'm not sure if the lack of schooling thing with Zimmer makes them believe it could be them one day, or if the more basic elements/intense use of sound design over orchestral composition of his scores makes it easier for less musically educated people to connect to it, hence a passion for, in some circumstances less than great scores.
They're the guys who buy OST's before they've even seen the film in context or what it was meant for (music to picture etc). They also have no idea of how many of the people who write similar scores all work on Zimmer's projects or each other, at the same ing studio. I've seen them pass projects around like a red-headed foster girl in a trailer park.
I know what you mean about serious people being on GS incognito - but I think it's less than it used to be as many found it's a lot of people chatting big game who have none whatsoever, because the ones that do really have game, will never out themselves. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Hey, watch it, Tom. I have a grandson about your age who will dropkick your ass right back to London. :tongue3 |
Lol, I had that coming :toothless |
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| Normie |
FWIW YMVV ETC...
Although I've played guitar since the 80s, I've only gotten into electronic/computer-based music in the last couple years...and I'm an old guy too Cryo (46), so don't feel alone ;)
When I decided to get into it (because it interests me, not that I plan on making any profit from it), I did so blindly and had/have to learn as I went/go along. That led me to a number of forums to learn what I 'needed' to do the kind of music I want to make. And I quickly learned the difference between 'need and want' when a real Jupiter 8 costs $7,000 and the 98% there Arturia softsynth costs $250. ( and even if it's 'less' than 98% who cares? It still sounds good and can certainly 'make music'.)
I think a lot of it comes down to elitism. Some people are convinced that at least 50G in hardware and a Masters in composition are 'base' requirements for music production (Gearslutz with exceptions) and others adopt more of a Punk DIY ethos of doing what you can with what you got-or can REALISTICALLY get (TA with exceptions).
My first guitar was a Gibson LP Firebrand and my current is a Charvel Model 5FX so I do know what having good gear is like. But the fact that I have/had as good or superior instruments to any number of 'signed' guitarists doesn't really matter. A great guitarist on a Fender Squire will blow me on my Charvel out of the water.
Point being is that TA'ites seem to better realize that the SSL desk is a 'wanted' luxury, not a 'needed' must have before a song can be created. GS guys either have the cash/already own the SSL or have the attitude that music made in FL/Reaper is inherently inferior to that made through their high-end gear. At the end of the day, is there soooo much difference that not having top end gear should stop us from creating at all? I think not.
The same attitude is displayed by those who believe that an extended education is required to both create and enjoy music. Does an education help? Of course. Is it a mandate? Thousands of musicians across the world prove otherwise daily. Period.
In my short time in this EDM 'world' I have read, researched, asked etc. what I need, why, how etc. and have had a HUGE amount of good, solid info given to me by yourself and many others here...'most' of which are of the hobbyist-semi-pro (but with some actual pros) caliber. I read, but avoid posting on GS solely because although there are some real pros there who enjoy sharing real knowledge and educating newbs like me, it is, on the whole, one big mighty penis wagfest where the biggest and most expensive of phallic equipment wins. That and the self-inflated egominia of many GS posters whose knowledge is the way/truth/light in all things and in all ways at all times, teaches me to stay the hell away. If I wanted to aggravate myself with self-centered idiots, I'd go post lib political boards.
TA may have less actual 'pro' posters than GS, but the people here are by and large more apt to actually use the toys they have and not just talk about them while berating another poster because he uses Discovery DSP instead of a 'Real' Nord Lead.
To sum up, 'need' and 'want':
In a world where a $5000 ITB setup will get you 98% of the sound and 100% of the quality of a final product once (likely) played through ear buds as a $1million hardware studio...the 'needs' are really few. We don't really 'need' the vast majority of our 'wants' to create cool and quality tunes. But there is NOTHING wrong with 'wanting' that Shadow Hills mastering Comp or that 'real' Jupiter 8. Led Zepplin didn't 'need' 4 music degrees to create some of the most loved and admired music on the planet. But there's nothing wrong (and much right) with wanting or having one to help realize your particular vision.
Whatever makes us happy. Personally I think if you made music and someone somewhere gets off on it, then your music has achieved success. If that person thinks it's great, it is. Others will surely disagree. Fine. Beauty/quality/greatness etc is in the eye or ear of the beholder.
/rant ;)
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
One thing I've noticed over the years is that TA and gearslutz are practically polar opposites when it comes to buying or recommending gear, software, etc. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on TA regarding an equipment or software purchase that didn't have several "you don't need that" sort of responses. And, if a newb comes on here and asks about buying a hardware synth, they practically get hammered.
Gearslutz, of course, is obviously all about excess. If a newb asks about buying hardware over there, yeah, he'll get some people suggesting starting with software instead. But, by and large, people will encourage going with hardware if he can afford it and if that's what he wants. After all, most musicians do learn to play on a hardware instrument, but for some reason, that notion seems to be lost here. The TA mentality seems to be that you should only buy what you need, regardless of what you want.
So, why the discrepancy here? Are TAs just that much more frugal?
Also, please note that this isn't intended to be another boring HW/SW debate, rather a need-vs-want debate, which can apply to someone wanting to buy expensive software as well, even though they may not need it. |
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| Nicolas Oliver |
| The first two or three responses seem to be bang-on. |
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