Dear people who study about money more than you deal with it,
I don't know much about your field of expertise, having read a book by Hayek, a Very Short Introduction to economics, and skimmed over Das Kapital until I freaked out and panicked because it was making my beard grow way too long and unkempt (found some fried egg on it later on though, score!). Anyway, being a complete outsider, there's something that I find intriguing: I hear about Hayek and Keynes all the time, yet nearly every single economics student I know is completely oblivious to their existence. What gives?
I know there should be enough criticism against their ideas by now, but have they become outdated already?
Vector A
Hayek is understandable since he is definitely outside the "mainstream" of economic opinion, but it is really odd for economics students not to have heard of Keynes, whose ideas are still quite influential. I guess economics courses must be rather different in Brazil.
EddieZilker
Milton Friedman has been influential in the marginalization of the Keynesian model that tends to favor more governmental influence. <--- not really a reason, per se, but a possible explanation depending on which school of economic theory your economists are coming from.
Lira
Friedman you say? Hmm... the name is familiar, but I don't remember his ideas. Gonna read a bit about him :)
quote:
Originally posted by Vector A
Hayek is understandable since he is definitely outside the "mainstream" of economic opinion, but it is really odd for economics students not to have heard of Keynes, whose ideas are still quite influential. I guess economics courses must be rather different in Brazil.
I suspect this may be the case... although a Japanese friend of mine didn't know about them either. Or, with the exception of this one guy I who studied foreign affairs and went to Geneva, no economics/political science/foreign affairs student I know is actually a good student.
I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case either. I remember I used to ask a psychology major all the time about William James (I'm a bit of a fan, so to speak) and he had never heard of the guy... whereas one of the most intelligent girls I know (also a psychology major) quickly snapped back saying "Oh, the sensations and emotions guy?" - and they're both from the same alma mater...
feelgood
For an economics student not to know about Keynes and Hayek is a travesty...especially since both are staples in economics 101.
Heres some fun stuff:
feelgood
Additionally, read Milton Friedman's 'Free to Choose'. Good insight into his ideology.
EddieZilker
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Friedman you say? Hmm... the name is familiar, but I don't remember his ideas. Gonna read a bit about him :)
He is interesting, given his influence in South America. I'm suspecting that Paulo Freire's "Banking Concept of Education" essay is a left-handed indictment of Free Market economics. I'm actually on my way to my macro-economics class, right now, but I'll see this thread when I get back.
Vector A
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Friedman you say? Hmm... the name is familiar, but I don't remember his ideas. Gonna read a bit about him :)
I suspect this may be the case... although a Japanese friend of mine didn't know about them either. Or, with the exception of this one guy I who studied foreign affairs and went to Geneva, no economics/political science/foreign affairs student I know is actually a good student.
I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case either. I remember I used to ask a psychology major all the time about William James (I'm a bit of a fan, so to speak) and he had never heard of the guy... whereas one of the most intelligent girls I know (also a psychology major) quickly snapped back saying "Oh, the sensations and emotions guy?" - and they're both from the same alma mater...
It is possible that their schools come at economics from a more ahistorical angle. I think there is a tendency for social sciences that want to be seen (but are sometimes not seen by outsiders) as "more scientific" to reject taking a historical overview of the subject in favor of teaching current theories and models in a context-free way, i.e. not talking much about their origins or the process of their acceptance.
Analytic philosophers in the early twentieth century were prone to this, too. Call it the "wannabe physicist syndrome."
LAdazeNYnights
I think it's important to recognize that university learning is not complete or total. This is true of any field of study, but especially of those which are more heavily rooted in theory (such as economics).
That being the case, where you study and who your professors are has a huge bearing on what exactly you learn. One of my professors, who I've had for 3 macro classes, is a member of URPE (United Radical Political Economists) so I get some really interesting views from him. His economics is heavily informed by Keynes though, so that's generally what I've spent the last year learning. As for the micro side of things -- I guess just about everything is attributable to Alfred Marshall.
Since Hayek has been mentioned: I'm familiar with him, and have been, but his name simply hasn't come up in any of my classes. I'm taking a class titled "History of Economic Thought" and we haven't even touched him, though we've spent time studying nearly 20 other economists and their ideas. That teacher of mine is a bit of a nut so I guess I can't blame her: on Monday, we spent the entire 1 hour class talking about other professors in the econ department. She opened up the class by asking "who do you think is the most anti-intellectual person in the department??" with every intention of saying some cruel things. It was beautiful.
Vector A
Funny, I never had profs who did that to each other. Any talking they did was about the administrators.
LAdazeNYnights
quote:
Originally posted by Vector A
Funny, I never had profs who did that to each other. Any talking they did was about the administrators.
Was my first experience with this. It's really just this one teacher though. She's been teaching at the school for maybe 28 years now and has the most DGAF personality I've ever encountered. She'll talk about anything too... The other day she was talking about teacher reviews, saying how she gets really ty teacher reviews from bitter students all the time. "They want to fire me? Go ahead! Fire me. I don't care. I made 480 thousand dollars last year. 70 of that came from teaching some classes here. Do you think I care? Fire me if you want"
Lira
That makes sense, LAdazeNYnights.
I also asked the guy I mentioned about it, and he said Hayek and Keynes are considered "philosophical economics" here... and there's a sharp distinction between science and philosophy here in Brazil.
quote:
Originally posted by Vector A
Funny, I never had profs who did that to each other. Any talking they did was about the administrators.
I've seen that happen before. Unsurprisingly, the woman I've got in mind was the most unpleasant human being I've ever been forced to meet: she would find a way to backstab or badmouth everyone who, even if just for a brief moment, got more attention than she did; she would complain about other teachers in class all the time because they weren't as awesome as she was; always blamed other people for her failings, so much so that a semester she taught was judged to be "the hardest" of all because at least half her students failed - and it was always their fault (because students like me passed with flying colours... by ignoring her material); and so on.
She was pathetic, though. Had nothing but a Master's after 30 years of research, never published anything of value, and thinks she's an icon.
