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Learning more..... (pg. 5)
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| DJ RANN |
Oh me, there is some gold in this thread.
I hope you're saving some of these one liners richie. The one about having three modes is utterly priceless.
Not to on your parade, and in fairness maybe my experience isn't usual but know about 10 people with your credentials (or higher) so that can't mean I know over 10% of those 100 people in the world.
having said that though, two of the biggest score guys on the planet have ZERO formal education in music (I mean literally none).
I'm not going to get in the score debate here as Richie has spelled it out, but the reasons listed as to why EDM artists want to get in to score have not been properly explained.
It's because:
A, Even scoring a small budget film (say $30m) will get you a few hundred thousand as a paycheck. Seems nice for a few weeks work right?
B, Saying you're a score composer has more kudos and respect than I'm a DJ that makes dance music.
C, The film industry is sexy (even though it's not). People want to work in it and be able to say they work in it.
D, EDM artists who want to score nearly always try to produce this ethereal super-emo, uplifting, heres-the-climax-part, music thinking that somehow they'll be able to get a gig scoring a film that will let them play this out. Good luck with that. I hope you remember the 12 other scores of major national release films that were nothing like that which you did to get to just have a shot of getting to that point.
IMO, it's mainly about money and status for these people - they think they can get paid huge sums for making music to cool films. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
but you are under thee illusion film composers are actually good composers. most are not. IN fact most cartoons about 30 years ago had better crafted scores than the feature films of today. So i am not so foolish to make the link between academic and a field which is known for rushed hack composition. You have to be able to dumb it down if you want to make it.
And my credentials, they are what they are. They mean nothing on paper but to get into those schools and finish, that is what people recognize. Most stay within the classical world, so you probably know few of them.
I think they mean more to me because i had no support, i did something nobody thought could be done ie learn piano on my own, get into the best performance school for piano and then composition. I was never a part of that clique but i got in , and i rocked it. I had played lots of instruments but really, i knew nothing about classical going in. The first week, i remember all the ing gay nerds not taking a liking because i wasn't gay and i was listening to like some rock band. They thought i didn't belong. And if there is anything i love more, is to make people that think they are great look mediocre. But that is how i am
Stubborn beyond reproach. Failure just meant try harder. That was is my mantra in life.
Honestly, i was really one of a kind. Every one there was the same. kid, pushed by parents from age 2 , never did anything . And then there was me. I was still kicking a drug a habit. I spent the first 2 years on oxy's. My parents actually said that if i went, that i would be a complete failure. And in that world , the world of classical pompous nerds from wealthy families, i was better.And that was an achievement for me. So when i graduated , it was fantastic go yourself moment to all those pricks. I went in knowing nothing, left knowing more than the teacher.
IF scoring seems sexy, go work on something on your computer and not shower for 2-3 days. Same clothes. Take in that smell. If music is not an obsession, and movies as well , it isnt for you, YOu have t0 love movies more than music in my opinion. You have to love working. You have to love that feeling of doing the impossible. You have to be insane. It is not glamourous. If you don't love it and when i say love, i mean east sleep breath it, it will not be fun. You will hate it. |
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| LoveHate |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
he does live in India tho. I imagine it is a bit different. The chinese film industry is also just huge and the music departments are somewhat still learning the ropes. But except for good food ( india ) i don't think you will me making money.
I actually love Chinese cinema. I've always wanted to work there just to be somewhere completely different for a year or two.
Video games is really the best industry to get into. It has the greatest potential and doesn't require as much of the traditional chops you need when working in film. |
what about Bollywood? |
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| LoveHate |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
but you are under thee illusion film composers are actually good composers. most are not. IN fact most cartoons about 30 years ago had better crafted scores than the feature films of today. So i am not so foolish to make the link between academic and a field which is known for rushed hack composition. You have to be able to dumb it down if you want to make it.
And my credentials, they are what they are. They mean nothing on paper but to get into those schools and finish, that is what people recognize. Most stay within the classical world, so you probably know few of them.
I think they mean more to me because i had no support, i did something nobody thought could be done ie learn piano on my own, get into the best performance school for piano and then composition. I was never a part of that clique but i got in , and i rocked it. I had played lots of instruments but really, i knew nothing about classical going in. The first week, i remember all the ing gay nerds not taking a liking because i wasn't gay and i was listening to like some rock band. They thought i didn't belong. And if there is anything i love more, is to make people that think they are great look mediocre. But that is how i am
Stubborn beyond reproach. Failure just meant try harder. That was is my mantra in life.
Honestly, i was really one of a kind. Every one there was the same. kid, pushed by parents from age 2 , never did anything . And then there was me. I was still kicking a drug a habit. I spent the first 2 years on oxy's. My parents actually said that if i went, that i would be a complete failure. And in that world , the world of classical pompous nerds from wealthy families, i was better.And that was an achievement for me. So when i graduated , it was fantastic go yourself moment to all those pricks. I went in knowing nothing, left knowing more than the teacher.
IF scoring seems sexy, go work on something on your computer and not shower for 2-3 days. Same clothes. Take in that smell. If music is not an obsession, and movies as well , it isnt for you, YOu have t0 love movies more than music in my opinion. You have to love working. You have to love that feeling of doing the impossible. You have to be insane. It is not glamourous. If you don't love it and when i say love, i mean east sleep breath it, it will not be fun. You will hate it. |
motivational post... |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by LoveHate
what about Bollywood? |
until about 4 years ago, it was very traditional. But ya, lots of opportunities, but you have to realize it isn't hollywood. |
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| sylvannas |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
until about 4 years ago, it was very traditional. But ya, lots of opportunities, but you have to realize it isn't hollywood. |
Right now every song/album that comes out in bollywood sounds like euro dance to me....some people may like it... some people don't. |
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| sylvannas |
This thread has pretty good content, but i expected people to throw some light on "How to compose" rather than "How to be a composer"... but i guess there is a very thin line between those two :)
And 2 days back i got an offer from a short film director(he is a friend's friend) to compose music...or rather should i say.... submit a demo of my work to him....He gave me a screenplay and i have spent close to 8-10 hours trying to correlate emotions with music...just by watching movies. For example...watching " The Lost Samurai" to get an understanding the feeling of being in a new world...and trying to see how the BG music fits in etc....
I am being crazy enough trying to map emotions to musical notes....and its getting pretty complicated at this point and i left it.... I have realized to compose a score, you have to live the characters u r self...and act out your side of the story(by composing music) for each and every character....i believe it gets even more complex when two or more characters are involved on the stage....
Technically speaking, i am armed with Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra(free plugin) and other free plugins and sadly i am facing hell trying to sound right at least....forget getting the intricacies and articulations right....I agree with you L4C it ain't easy at all... It's damn tough... There is a difference between sounding fine and sounding epic,emotional and inspiring....
I will post my sad and pathetic attempt once i feel its done....and thanks for all your help....Even though some posts were very practical :toothless ....Sometimes knowing your enemy is better.... in a way :) |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
but you are under thee illusion film composers are actually good composers. most are not. IN fact most cartoons about 30 years ago had better crafted scores than the feature films of today. So i am not so foolish to make the link between academic and a field which is known for rushed hack composition. You have to be able to dumb it down if you want to make it.
And my credentials, they are what they are. They mean nothing on paper but to get into those schools and finish, that is what people recognize. Most stay within the classical world, so you probably know few of them.
I think they mean more to me because i had no support, i did something nobody thought could be done ie learn piano on my own, get into the best performance school for piano and then composition. I was never a part of that clique but i got in , and i rocked it. I had played lots of instruments but really, i knew nothing about classical going in. The first week, i remember all the ing gay nerds not taking a liking because i wasn't gay and i was listening to like some rock band. They thought i didn't belong. And if there is anything i love more, is to make people that think they are great look mediocre. But that is how i am
Stubborn beyond reproach. Failure just meant try harder. That was is my mantra in life.
Honestly, i was really one of a kind. Every one there was the same. kid, pushed by parents from age 2 , never did anything . And then there was me. I was still kicking a drug a habit. I spent the first 2 years on oxy's. My parents actually said that if i went, that i would be a complete failure. And in that world , the world of classical pompous nerds from wealthy families, i was better.And that was an achievement for me. So when i graduated , it was fantastic go yourself moment to all those pricks. I went in knowing nothing, left knowing more than the teacher.
IF scoring seems sexy, go work on something on your computer and not shower for 2-3 days. Same clothes. Take in that smell. If music is not an obsession, and movies as well , it isnt for you, YOu have t0 love movies more than music in my opinion. You have to love working. You have to love that feeling of doing the impossible. You have to be insane. It is not glamourous. If you don't love it and when i say love, i mean east sleep breath it, it will not be fun. You will hate it. |
Yeah, tbh, most the people I know with the same credentials did have a serious backing in the form of very wealthy parents. I won't say all of them were pushed to do it from 2 years, but at least they didn't have to work a night job to make rent or ever pay bills etc, which if you think about it, is a lot of support when you're probably not with school until until you're at least in your mid 20's.
One guy I know, came from a hideously wealthy family studied at all of them; Julliard, Royal Conservatory, Berklee, Eastman.....and in fairness the guy is genius level. I've never seen someone knock out quality cues as fast as that. It's really a thing to behold.
Agree with you on the composing vs scoring thing - I once brought in a old VHS of a Sinbad Film for someone there as they like the old Harryhausen stuff, and before we knew it we had 3 major score composers crowded around us just marveling at the score, saying things like, ", how did they write that?0 or "I wish I could get that complex"
Watch any of those old 30's/40's films and although the technical part of the scoring is nothing like today, the classical composing is incredible.
But that's more sign of the times; the times are more crude, more disposable, more commericalised, less refined - and so is music. Studios want a product, not art, and the supply is altered to meet the demand. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by sylvannas
Right now every song/album that comes out in bollywood sounds like euro dance to me....some people may like it... some people don't. |
I honestly know nothing about Bollywood and i imagine they have their own aesthetic. I am more familiar with Asian cinema as i just love some of their films. I did see a documentary tho on how actresses in bollywood are seen as scum and how the industry does not get much respect. I also saw another one on how gold is like the most important thing in India. Would like to visit tho one day. Just for the food alone. |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
I honestly know nothing about Bollywood and i imagine they have their own aesthetic. I am more familiar with Asian cinema as i just love some of their films. I did see a documentary tho on how actresses in bollywood are seen as scum and how the industry does not get much respect. I also saw another one on how gold is like the most important thing in India. Would like to visit tho one day. Just for the food alone. |
If you want Indian food, the UK is probably the place to come ;) |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
But that's more sign of the times; the times are more crude, more disposable, more commericalised, less refined - and so is music. Studios want a product, not art, and the supply is altered to meet the demand. |
i think the difficulty is just in other areas. Zimmer's scores , are production masterpieces. I mean that is one guy that can just have one pitch for a score and make it work. But like captain america, Silvestri is just as capable as williams and that score was pretty much a remote control isotope. Well for an orchestral score anyways. And he isn't that old that he is suffering from dementia and lost it. Even williams, my favourite followed by Goldenthal is not hired anymore because his style is too symphonic, he is too slow, old and it wouldn't work. The only scores he will be hired for are jazz type scores which tend to stay the same and don/t really suffer from trends. Speaking of Goldenthal. that guy is a monster. Like he does everything and everything well. I say this mexican biopic and it was like flamenco guitar for the most part and his name showed up. But again, he is almost too good. And it is somewhat better to be not so good but more agile and able to work fast with others. When you are really good, you have an ego. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
If you want Indian food, the UK is probably the place to come ;) |
I have a Euro residency because of my dad. To be honest tho, i ing hate the brits for their accent. And it doesn't reciprocate. When i go there, nobody fawns over my accent. But like i was being served by this waiter and like all the girls were just imaging his bulge and all because of his ing accent. |
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