|
collab? (pg. 3)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by swennieboy
Just because the only music you like is 140 bpm trance with the most simple melodies my little brother even could make doesn't mean that its bad music... Where is your music? What label do you release your tracks on??? |
It really is bad music dude. |
|
|
| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Yes. Ten minutes long with the same sound. What I don't do is repeat the same bull hook until the end of the song. My has progression, son. I do something with the instruments I use rather than create a simplistic, childish loop that gets old after half the length of the songs you make. I don't have to put some obligatory break in the middle of every song, and when I loop, they're a hell of a lot more complex than any piece of put out by DDD. |
Do you know what the purpose of a break is in dance music? |
|
|
| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
Do you know what the purpose of a break is in dance music? |
Definitely! It's in my really great advices thread:
| quote: | | 41. All songs should have massive, melody driven breaks, with complex harmonic chord progressions while being completely bereft of rhythmic elements until the end. The occasional kick & crash is okay, but keep it sparse. They should mirror individual, minor classical movements in both their length and profundity. They should ooze with saccharine, over-indulgent sentimentality. No matter what sort of song you're making, these are essential to conveying a completely unnecessary if not unnatural melodrama to the dance-floor. What's more is that every DJ in the world loves them. Their sets are filled with big-time break songs, one after the other, driving up energy to an epic frenzy and then driving it off a cliff like a disgruntled 11 year-old who hijacked an ice-cream truck right before having a diabetic seizure. |
But maybe you should tell me, anyway. |
|
|
| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Definitely! It's in my really great advices thread:
But maybe you should tell me, anyway. |
A break or breakdown does the following:
-signals the end of section and the beginning of a new one
-introduces new material
-provides relief from previous section(high -> low energy)
-creates anticipation(the cliched aspect of it actually works to a benefit here)
-lowered energy creates juxtaposition so that the incoming section will sound more intense |
|
|
| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
A break or breakdown does the following:
-signals the end of section and the beginning of a new one
-introduces new material
-provides relief from previous section(high -> low energy)
-creates anticipation(the cliched aspect of it actually works to a benefit here)
-lowered energy creates juxtaposition so that the incoming section will sound more intense |
I just make them so I can get my classical on |
|
|
| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
A break or breakdown does the following:
-signals the end of section and the beginning of a new one
-introduces new material
-provides relief from previous section(high -> low energy)
-creates anticipation(the cliched aspect of it actually works to a benefit here)
-lowered energy creates juxtaposition so that the incoming section will sound more intense |
I was actually hoping for something I didn't know, but, I would add that it allows a DJ to rest a crowd after a period of intensity.
Still, a LOT of songs seem to have them as an almost obligatory component that is completely unnecessary. I've put out a few songs (Click "Music formerly on Soundcloud" in my sig) with breaks, myself. I just don't use them in every song.
EDIT to add: There are other, often more appropriate ways to achieve the intents you laid out, above. |
|
|
| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
EDIT to add: There are other, often more appropriate ways to achieve the intents you laid out, above. |
Okay...example? |
|
|
| cryophonik |
| C'mon, guys, you KNOW that you're supposed to follow the formulas in EDM. Otherwise, how are we supposed to bitch about how formulaic EDM is? |
|
|
| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
Okay...example? |
You can create anticipation, simply by building in a crescendo or even using crescendo and decrescendo dynamics regarding intensity. Changes, like switching from 4/4 to breakbeat, throughout the course of a song also switches the mood or can build anticipation for a radical change. Switching the quantization of an element, from being latched on one groove to another, throughout a song's progression; dialating the feedback on time-based effects; even adding a small rhythmic variation to the last two bars of an eight-bar phrase, can all be done to create the effects you've listed - the desired effects of the break.
Both of these songs make use of what I'm referring to, in terms of introductory anticipation for a noticeable change in energy, as well as content, without having to use elongated, melody-driven, rhythmless breaks.
Whether I've succeeded in that remains for your (and others') determination. I'm not saying I shouldn't have or couldn't have done better. The fact remains that anytime you're introducing change in one or more parts, for whatever reason, you're also switching up (or down) the energetic dynamics. There are multiple routes to achieving that. Changes in energy shouldn't be done for the sake of doing them. Contrast effects should actually pertain to the content of the song.
Sadly, what happens more often than not is that a producer seems to be convinced that such change is a necessary component of any song. The only tool they know, beyond slowly building up the track's core theme by slowly adding parts throughout its course, is to break it in half with a completely unrelated interlude and dive back into more of the same that was going on, prior to the break, only louder. There are some songs which take the orgasmotron approach and just go haywire with a hook introduced on the break. The bottom line is that such an approach is formulaic and boring. Again, it's not that I think that no music should be made with breaks or even that they should avoid the aforementioned formulas. The litmus test is whether these approaches are appropriate for the music, to begin with.
Do they actually enhance the song? Is it something the music is left incomplete, without? If the answer is yes, to either of these questions, then, by all means, the rhythmless, bottomless, melodic break approach should be used. All-too-often, however, it seems tacked on and inappropriate and done because the producer lacks the ability to control his dynamics in other ways. |
|
|
| Beatflux |
"" You can create anticipation, simply by building in a crescendo or even using crescendo and decrescendo dynamics regarding intensity. Changes, like switching from 4/4 to breakbeat, throughout the course of a song also switches the mood or can build anticipation for a radical change. Switching the quantization of an element, from being latched on one groove to another, throughout a song's progression; dialating the feedback on time-based effects; even adding a small rhythmic variation to the last two bars of an eight-bar phrase, can all be done to create the effects you've listed - the desired effects of the break.""
None of those things can do all of the things that the break does. The break is a key structural component and its just as necessary as say an intro.
Not every break is a hands up in the air affair: it can still have a rhythmic quality to it(Pryda).
""Both of these songs make use of what I'm referring to, in terms of introductory anticipation for a noticeable change in energy, as well as content, without having to use elongated, melody-driven, rhythmless breaks.
"""
Both of these tracks would benefit from 8 bar breaks that split up the sections and help introduce new material.
It's one thing to try and pioneer new techniques, but its another thing to reject old techniques you don't understand. |
|
|
| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
Both of these tracks would benefit from 8 bar breaks that split up the sections and help introduce new material.
It's one thing to try and pioneer new techniques, but its another thing to reject old techniques you don't understand. |
I understand them perfectly and I'm definitely not trying to pioneer anything.
And thus concludes a once productive conversation.
EDIT: And, honestly, I kind of figured you were trolling anyway but felt it necessary to put my money where my mouth is and directly relate what I was saying to what I was doing. No harm or offense derived. And, that's just your opinion, man. |
|
|
|
|
