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Some light discussion... (pg. 3)
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| EddieZilker |
| You said this would be light discussion but this thread just drones on and on. |
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| Sushipunk |
| And once again, just like that, the handy-j randomly enters a TA discussion. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| You didn't think I'd wait until page two, did you? :o |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
You didn't think I'd wait until page two, did you? :o |
I certainly hoped not :gsmile: |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by enydo
Nou, are you still freeloading waiting for that perfect position to present itself?
How many offers have you declined recently? |
No, I'm working my ass off. What do you think I do all day?
Also lol at immediate ad hominem when someone disagrees with the general consensus. Glad to see the TA COR circle jerk is alive and well. |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Don't you reckon that's at least part of the reason why US-Pakistan relations are so strained? |
Pakistan-Pakistan relations are strained; aside from never getting involved in the region in the first place, no course of action we could have taken would have avoided "strained" relations with Pakistan. In any event, their government--or, at least, elements of it--practically begged us to carry out several of our drone strikes there, like the one that killed Baitullah Mehsud.
This alleged trampling of the sovereignty of the Philippines is even less credible. One (apparently nameless, or just not worth naming) "lawmaker" complains and we're to infer that they speak for the entire government? Give me a break.
We could go after terrorists with nothing but song and flowers and the news would all be about how we're promoting noise pollution and slaughtering innocent plantlife. |
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| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
No, I'm working my ass off. What do you think I do all day?
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Nothing. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by enydo
Nothing. |
Your ESP skills astound me, have you considered a career in grifting? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
Pakistan-Pakistan relations are strained; aside from never getting involved in the region in the first place, no course of action we could have taken would have avoided "strained" relations with Pakistan. In any event, their government--or, at least, elements of it--practically begged us to carry out several of our drone strikes there, like the one that killed Baitullah Mehsud. |
I'm not saying you invaded the place against everyone's will, nor that Pakistan itself isn't a mess. It most certainly is. All I'm saying is that Nou's hawkish attitude is too simplistic and the relationship isn't as simple as he apparently takes them to be. We still need to keep in mind that we're talking about a country behind operations that were carried out without the knowledge of the owners of the soil (like the attack that killed Bin Laden), even if the secrecy was vital for the success of the attack. Of course there will be some resentment.
It's also hard to believe the local population won't show a reaction against these drones, reason why I mentioned a possible inverse scenario - specially because civil casualties are likely to occur we like it or not. So, in the end, as Hal put it, "just because you can do something doesn't mean you ought to".
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
This alleged trampling of the sovereignty of the Philippines is even less credible. One (apparently nameless, or just not worth naming) "lawmaker" complains and we're to infer that they speak for the entire government? |
Nope, that's why I didn't even mention this point.
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
We could go after terrorists with nothing but song and flowers and the news would all be about how we're promoting noise pollution and slaughtering innocent plantlife. |
Out of curiosity: Has something even remotely similar to this ever happened?
Edit: For example, even an apparently awesome idea turned out to be a campaign with ulterior motives. Pulling a Ron Paul (which is far from being an ideal solution) and bringing everybody back home would be better than this. |
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| Blake |
| Wasn't there a star wars movie about this? |
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| chode_breath |
If anyone is genuinely interested about the relative threat level Phillipines-based terrorists pose the US, read this: http://www.worldscibooks.com/etextb.../5438_intro.pdf
You get to read about the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, or MILF, for short. :gsmile:
Also, this very short article explains how Americans are more likely to be killed by their furniture than they are terrorist attacks: http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...KQeQgVU.twitter
In short, the drones probably shouldn't be in the Phillipines. It's a waste of time, money, and innocent human life. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
All I'm saying is that Nou's hawkish attitude is too simplistic and the relationship isn't as simple as he apparently takes them to be. |
Where did I ever say it is simple? I never said that. Listen what to what Arbiter said, Pakistan is at war with its self. The less radical elements of their government/military have fought massive conventional style wars in the tribal region against indigenous and foreign terrorist organizations, organizations that have carried out terrorist attacks inside Pakistan itself.
You really think the Pakistani government has a deep issue with drone strikes? No. In fact Pakistan even asked to purchase drones themselves to carry out these strikes. We of course denied it, having already given them plenty of high tech weaponry (which we probably should not have).
Our interest in Pakistan is to support the less radical elements of the government there, and sadly they are not the loudest element and probably not what a good chunk of the people want. But that is something that we have to deal with. They are a fully nuclear armed country with home grown terrorist groups that have waged international campaigns, mainly against their nuclear armed neighbor India. These groups are suspected of having close ties to elements inside the military as well.
I am not supporting troops on the ground, I think that the infantry campaign in Afghanistan is a waste of time, and everything in Iraq was a waste. I do support drone strikes though, it keeps our men and women safe, it can exact a far more potent and surgical strike, and it is cheap.
I am also certain that no national sovereignty has been violated. Pakistan is far more mad at us for putting actual guys on the ground, deep inside Pakistan during the OBL raid last year than they are about us killing what even they view as nut jobs in the tribal region. Pakistan could take immediate measures to stop drone raids if they wanted to. |
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