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Libertarians (pg. 2)
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Quazar
I think a lot of Libertarians are probably people who would be liberals, except they were raised under the idea that "liberal" means "lazy homo hippies" and can't subconsciously overcome that... or something. |
Liberal and libertarian are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Libertarian ideology is far right of most republicans in the US. Its even more far right than fascism is, because that still includes a strong government role.
Libertarianism swings back around the back side of the political spectrum and is the furthest extreme. It is what communal anarchy is to the left. |
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| zyklon-jay |
| its just french for swingers. |
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| enydo |
| "I can do everything in my life all on my own. I will never need help or assistance with anything." |
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| Quazar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Liberal and libertarian are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Libertarian ideology is far right of most republicans in the US. Its even more far right than fascism is, because that still includes a strong government role.
Libertarianism swings back around the back side of the political spectrum and is the furthest extreme. It is what communal anarchy is to the left. |
I know, but on social issues libertarians tend to agree with liberals, although the approach is different (i.e. liberals care more about them). That's why I get the feeling that a lot of Libertarians were probably raised in a conservative environment, and can't break away from that completely... but they also have no interest in Bible-thumping Republicans.
Perhaps that's because being raised in the South by Republican parents (Religious, yes, but thankfully not Bible-thumpers), I started out as a Republican when I first started following politics, then transitioned into a Libertarian mindset pretty quickly, but eventually realized I was actually a liberal and had just been too immature to see that I had simply been trying to mold my parents' Reagan-loving views into something I could be on board with instead of thinking for myself.
A lot of people I know went through that in college, though. Most of them now like the idea of a party that is economically conservative, but socially liberal... but they also think it's ridiculous to try and remove the government from everything. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Well, the prices have spiked in Brazil for a lot of reasons; high tariffs on imported goods, monetary inflation, just to name a couple. The availability of credit in the country has been out of control. It seems like the government there is taking a page right of the USA's book and doing all of the things that brought the US economy into an economic bubble that ultimately busted. |
If it worked for you, then it works for us! This bubble should get us into the first world :D
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
At any rate, I just wanted to point out how you can absolutely relate to the driving forces of the market and that the free Brazilian market (or free people I should say) in particular is an awesome thing to be a part of and not as scary as some people think. |
Ah, got it. Maybe I should rephrase what I said: I mean I can't relate to his absolute trust that the market always knows best... although I trust it enough not to be a deranged commie :p
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Verdade.. eu espero um bom jogo, nao importa quem vencer! |
Boa! :) |
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| dj_alfi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Liberal and libertarian are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Libertarian ideology is far right of most republicans in the US. Its even more far right than fascism is, because that still includes a strong government role.
Libertarianism swings back around the back side of the political spectrum and is the furthest extreme. It is what communal anarchy is to the left. |
Political scholars such as Noam Chomsky assert that in most countries the terms "libertarian" and "libertarianism" are synonymous with left anarchism. It is only in the United States that the term libertarian is commonly associated with those who have conservative positions on economic issues and liberal positions on social issues, going by the common meanings of "conservative" and "liberal" in the United States. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
there's a lot to like about libertarianism. i havent had much experience with the modern american libertarian (other than idiots on forums who don't represent ) but the classical liberal stuff from enlightenment europe is pretty good reading.
"libertarians" that, say, oppose abortion (like ron paul) can suck my wang though. add to that group the sovereign citizen "libertarian" hick faggots.
| quote: | Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights
Are the most intelligent mentally-handicapped people.
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do you mean they're intelligent yet retarded? |
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| david.michael |
| quote: | Originally posted by Quazar
I know, but on social issues libertarians tend to agree with liberals, although the approach is different (i.e. liberals care more about them). That's why I get the feeling that a lot of Libertarians were probably raised in a conservative environment, and can't break away from that completely... but they also have no interest in Bible-thumping Republicans. |
| quote: | | A lot of people I know went through that in college, though. Most of them now like the idea of a party that is economically conservative, but socially liberal... but they also think it's ridiculous to try and remove the government from everything. |
I'd say this pretty much describes where I'm at. |
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| Vector A |
Most libertarians are basically conservatives who think the Republican party is too religious or too anti-gay. I suspect that in elections where there is no other choice, most self-identified libertarians will overwhelmingly prefer Republican candidates to Democratic ones.* This is because in most libertarian views, economic freedom is paramount while "social" freedoms are of only secondary importance. Also, a goodly number of them (like Ron Paul!) actually have social conservative views, but believe they should be imposed on the state level rather than on the federal.
* Just a suspicion; I could be wrong. If anyone has data on that question, it would be cool to look at. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_alfi
Political scholars such as Noam Chomsky assert that in most countries the terms "libertarian" and "libertarianism" are synonymous with left anarchism. |
Noam Chomsky is a political scholar the same way I'm a philosopher :p |
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| TranceArmstrong |
Libertarian here checking in. Not opposed to a woman's right to remove her unborn baby nor am I in favor of widespread pollution, robber barons, or poor people dying because they can't afford healthcare. I just get a little jumpy when we start A. removing the price mechanism from particular sectors (interest rates, student loans, healthcare, real estate) of the economy and B. start using the force and considerable influence of the government to prefer some classes of people (bankers, automakers, military/weapons producers, home owners, etc) over others.
It follows that if people are able to marry who they want and ingest whatever substances they want, the least they should be able to do is spend their money on what they want as well. If push came to shove though, I'd rather (at least temporarily) put up with the welfare state preferred by the left than the warfare state preferred by the right. Not for too long though; I don't particularly envy what they've got going on there in Europe. |
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| TranceArmstrong |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vector A
This is because in most libertarian views, economic freedom is paramount while "social" freedoms are of only secondary importance. Also, a goodly number of them (like Ron Paul!) actually have social conservative views, but believe they should be imposed on the state level rather than on the federal.
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True with the Koch Bros wing of the libertarian community (although they are known anti-drug warriors) but not with me; I'd rather just have the discussion be shifted to allowing "freedoms" in general, be they social or fiscal. Our complicated tax code, perverse system of lobbying, and of course the good ol' commerce clause has shown that the line between fiscal and social freedoms can blur quite easily.
Always found it curious that modern liberals seem committed to advancing the hopelessly impossible dual mandate of celebrating social diversity while at the same time instilling economic equality. Also always found it curious how "small government" conservatives (other than Ron Paul and his supporters) are always in favor large, expensive, centralized military budgets. |
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