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Are a few groups controlling what EDM we hear? (pg. 2)
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| RobertStern |
| quote: | Originally posted by alan
No one controls what you hear.
It's all market forces.
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The Market forces are no coincidence alot of times. This is how superstars get manufactured.
You are right, I can listen to what ever I want, whenever I want. But I think you missed his point. Giant controls what you hear at Avalon, and Insomniac controls what you hear at EDC or Exchange and you control what you hear when you go to an Incognito show. Since groups like that, pretty much deal with the big agencies like AM Only for example, you keep hearing what AM Only offers, over and over.
XM/SIRIUS control what most of the US gets to hear as EDM.
That's control. |
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| alan |
| quote: | Originally posted by RobertStern
The Market forces are no coincidence alot of times. This is how superstars get manufactured.
You are right, I can listen to what ever I want, whenever I want. But I think you missed his point. Giant controls what you hear at Avalon, and Insomniac controls what you hear at EDC or Exchange and you control what you hear when you go to an Incognito show. Since groups like that, pretty much deal with the big agencies like AM Only for example, you keep hearing what AM Only offers, over and over.
XM/SIRIUS control what most of the US gets to hear as EDM.
That's control. |
In 330 events, we've worked with AM Only only 3 to 4 times at the most, or 1% of our bookings. Otherwise, there are tons of agencies catering to more underground music.
At any given time, there are tons of options, and you dont need to listen to what's so called popular or what AM Only or WM Morris wnats you to hear.
Thats my point, same as Gerard, you just need to go out of your element. Avalon is not the end all of be all of everything, or Lure, or Vanguard, or King King, or Los Globos.
From our end, no one has ever pressured us to play music like others play. An other promoters also have their own niches and all. |
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| RobertStern |
| quote: | Originally posted by alan
In 330 events, we've worked with AM Only only 3 to 4 times at the most, or 1% of our bookings. Otherwise, there are tons of agencies catering to more underground music.
At any given time, there are tons of options, and you dont need to listen to what's so called popular or what AM Only or WM Morris wnats you to hear.
Thats my point, same as Gerard, you just need to go out of your element. Avalon is not the end all of be all of everything, or Lure, or Vanguard, or King King, or Los Globos.
From our end, no one has ever pressured us to play music like others play. An other promoters also have their own niches and all. |
But again your missing the point. I am not saying you guys are on the AM Only train or WM Morris, and don't take it personally, but you don't fit in to the category Nerologic is talking about. You guys actually do diversify and bring in all kinds of talent. Totally the minority.
He is getting at the MASS EDM PUBLIC, what all the kids and whoever that aren't fanatics like us TA's get to listen to. Most of them prolly don't even know you guys exist. They just know whats at the big clubs and massives.
The general everyday EDM listener does not know about the underground stuff like Incognito and the like. They know Skrillex, Aoki, Kaskade, SHM, Tiesto, Alesso, Deadmau5, Insomniac, Goldenvoice, XM, Sirius, etc.... and now AEG and Clear Channel, Ticketmaster. = Control
And those elements are not run anything like you guys run Incognito. Just trying to stay on Nerologics thread, as I believe this is what he was getting at. |
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| alan |
Im just trying to explain and not taking anything personally.
But Insomniac of recent has thrown techno events like Adam Beyer, Lebing and Ida Engeberg, as well as tech house/k house like Jamie Jones, Hot Natured and the Get Lost party coming soon. So thats totally different and goes up against the music they are "known for" for lack of a better way to explain it.
They obviously also want to dominate that market, and just outspend all the niche promoters like us. Either that, or everyone playing at Get Lost is becomg more commercial.
But thats my point too, they arent controlling who you listen to. You control who you listen to.
Events like Insomniac react to what they feel the consumer wants. And if the consumer wants this DJ or music, then they get it and provide it to you.
Bottomline, I think the original thread says Agencies and DJs choose what you hear. I'm saying, they don't. Promoters, big or small, choose DJs (who have agents) who they think fit the sound they espouse, and who would be able to bring the targeted number of people to their event. So technically, its consumers who choose who they listen to, and who comes to play.
As they say, consumer is king. |
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| Nerologic |
I am talking about the average EDM noob just getting into the scene.
He/She isn't in the "know" and is already experienced with in the scene. They only hear what the see at the massives, popular clubs and on the main stream radio airwaves. Which in fact, is all being ran along the lines of those same groups.
For us, and people that are in the know we have our likes and tastes that stick and sometimes change. I recorded Powertools at 2am in the mid/late 90's then KGGI in Riverside had their show with DJ Enrie and DJ Lynwood. At that time they were my only option along with Paul Oakenfold's Goa Mix and compilation CD's. Then in the early 2000's my options were only Powertools and BBC1 essential mixes that I was downloading online. No radio stations around that time touched EDM, so I was pretty much a BBC Radio One junkie waiting for the Essential Selection on Friday and Essential Mix on Saturday. All that searching and loyalty to EDM pretty much made me to what I am now.
Fast forward to present time, and its all over the place. But whats all over the place is the exact problem of what i am talking about. I am referring to the next generation, the guys that aren't set in their old ways like many of us.
| quote: | Originally posted by alan
In 330 events, we've worked with AM Only only 3 to 4 times at the most, or 1% of our bookings. Otherwise, there are tons of agencies catering to more underground music.
At any given time, there are tons of options, and you dont need to listen to what's so called popular or what AM Only or WM Morris wnats you to hear.
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I wasn't really referring to people that would go to your place. You guys have something strong going on in LA that's been going on for a while now, which shows your guys hard work and effort with in the scene. I am speaking about the next generation and the people in Pheonix, Denver, El Paso, etc etc that don't have many options.
LA/SF/SD/Vegas(yes they are sometimes diverse)/Chicago/Miami/NYC/Toronto are all spoiled cities with options for the most part. But you can be in those cities, and be stuck in square one going to the poppy places because that's whats popular and you don't know better. |
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| alan |
I feel a bit bad replying, but I'm not trying to debate anyone so just my last point before I shut my mouth.
For me, its market forces, if you are a newbie, its but obvious that you will only know and hear whats famous or popular. Thats the nature of the beast. More commercial clubs are more famous and better attended, coz they appeal to more people, or they have the lowest common denonimator.
There is a reason why McDonalds is so so so much bigger than El Bulli in Spain, which has a waiting list of 3 years and hasd been voted the world's best restaurant few times over. Same as Avalon, or Supperclub, or Playhouse, they usually play commercial pop house or pop trance, etc and thus get the most attention. They dont control the music, coz they are just playing what more people want to hear. and they want as many people as possible in their clubs. Its not a conspiracy to me, its just normal business practice.
Once these newbies really start listening and their tastes become more discerning, then they start looking for what they want. And all Im saying is its there, you just need to look for it, be it DnB with Respect, Techno + House with Incognito, hard techno with Droidbehavior, Funky House with Jel-O, and so on and so forth.
Maybe you are correct. And maybe there are a few groups controlling EDM that the "newbies" hear. But I dont think there is a conspiracy still. I think its just the process we all go thru in listening to EDM, we start with what's easiest to the ears(and thats where the commercial DJs and clubs exist), and improve our tastes to whats supposedly better, quality wise (where undergrounds, small clubs and events exist). Thanks. |
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| RobertStern |
I get your come from, and at the high level like that, you're pretty right on.
I do think somewhere these is a Manufacturing of some of our DJ superstars and the tracks they play. As we all know alot of these top guys are not the ones actually making their own stuff.
I feel that somewhere there are a group(s) deciding what track(s) will be the big ones of the year, and what DJ's will play at the "big" events, actually planning and marketing and manufacturing it all into fruition. I would bet somewhere in someones contract has tracks that will be played at xxxx event and such. I would think this is at the manager/agent/label level. Also, holding back other tracks that might take away from the ones they are pushing.
I guess you could call that a conspriracy or something. Same that is done with everything for mass-market.
Then there is everyone else. |
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| DjWoody |
Another group that in a way controls what we hear are record pools/labels & DJ's. On the commercial side this is very obvious as labels work directly with record pools such as Dj City & DMS. The labels work with the pools so they can "push" certain tracks/artists. If they push them enough, they often get rewarded. If a pool hypes a track enough and keeps saying that it's "HOT," "ON FIRE," "THE BIZ," or anything along that line, DJ's will start believing it and as a result they will start playing it. I've seen it happen a million times.
Sadly enough, many DJ's now a days don't know the art of digging and have become sheep. They only play what they're told it's "HOT." That's one reason why you hear the same songs everywhere you go. Someone behind the scenes is "pushing" for these tracks to get played.
It didn't used to be like that. Sadly, I doubt we will ever go back to the old days. Even in the underground, it's all about who you know. DJ's will always push their friends tracks even if they suck. #truth and I've been guilty of it. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. That's what's going on. |
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| Kam |
i agree 100%, most of these new to house music club promoters in hollywood only book based on what the major agencies offer them. They have no real music knowledge when it comes to house music so they trust the agency who says "x artist" has played everywhere else or has a hit on beatport. And even if the promoter/owner/booking manager does know who they wanna book, they have to book other lesser known artists to book them.
The worst part about the mainstream scene these days is that most people dont have a clue who the dj's are. They are just attending venues because of the reputation of the venue.
Actually take that back, the worst part about the scene in LA is that there still isn't a 24/7 electronic radio statio (not on satellite).
:eyespop: :eyespop: |
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| Nerologic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kam
Actually take that back, the worst part about the scene in LA is that there still isn't a 24/7 electronic radio statio (not on satellite).
:eyespop: :eyespop: |
What was the 103 one from like 10 years ago?
I couldn't get it down here in SD, but I would always listen to it when I was in LA.
I also miss the days where power 106 (I think) would go straight EDM all weekend long on big party holiday weekends. This all has to be around 10 years ago. |
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| xDJxSAPHYREx |
How familiar does this lineup look to you?
ARMIN VAN BUUREN
MAKRUS SCHULZ
FERRY CORSTEN
DASH BERLIN
GARETH EMERY
TRITONAL
COSMIC GATE
W&W
JOCHEN MILLER
Same old names for every big-name massive festival. To me it just feels like the companies get comfortable booking the same names over and over, work out a deal/establish a relationship with them, and can in turn book them for much cheaper.
Its too much work and too much of a risk to book someone new and different. |
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| Kam |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nerologic
What was the 103 one from like 10 years ago?
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groove 103.1 was an AWESOME radio station. Played a WIDE variety of house music too, the way it should be. |
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