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I can't pretend that digital is more enjoyable... maybe I'm too old?! (pg. 3)
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| Ryan0751 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dykes_on_Jay
speak for yourself. With enough practice and a good pair of direct drives you can keep 3 songs synced with records without breaking too much of a sweat. Its called experience. A guy like Danny Howells for instance can play 14 hours on vynil without making a single mistake. Like a coked up robot. |
No he can't. I lovvvve Danny, and have been listening to him for many years. I'm not exactly a youngin anymore. But he's not totally perfect. Nobody is. I'm not talking about train wrecks, just little slips that only a DJ would hear.
Find me an all vinyl mix for even 3 hours without one single slip... flawless beat on no flanging or beat phase cancellation, no perceptible place where you can tell the DJ corrected the mix on the fly. It's next to impossible even on CDJ's (live), on vinyl it's even harder.
Sorry I just strive for perfect. |
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| Dykes_on_Jay |
Have you ever seen Danny play a 14 hour extended set? Mixing for 4 hours is draining, to do what he does over that period of time is insane. I think you are talking out of your arse. Djs with the auto beat match functions barely make a mix without mistakes. People that play all mediums will always be better djs than laptop jobber monkeys. The experience in all mediums teaches you how to keep flow, how to achieve tension and release. To be able to play while actually seeing the results of the music on people instead of looking at the waveform and waiting for a break to autosync. Every transition the same 1 to 2 minute then bass switch. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Just the fact that you say it is next to impossible on cdj tells me you don't know what you are talking about. It is pathetically easy even without cans if you aren't a hack that needs more practice.
Take the time to know your tracks and you can be perfect in any medium. Mistakes happen, but they are the rarity and not the norm if you practice enough.
How can you strive for perfection if you say it is impossible? |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| I would say it is impossible even digitally. People quantized their music differently resorting in things creating phasing regardless of how in sync they are. |
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| Ryan0751 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
I would say it is impossible even digitally. People quantized their music differently resorting in things creating phasing regardless of how in sync they are. |
Exactly. Again, I'm not talking about huge f' ups ot rain wrecks in a club. But to state some top DJ can play for 14 hours without any perceptible corrections is pretty ridiculous.
And I regularly play out... and 5 hour sets at that. Just did one this past weekend.
Perfection is always impossible in anything you do in life, but you can still strive for getting as close to it as you can. |
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| Juan Paulino |
| I'm with ryan on this one. |
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| Adam420 |
| Last time I saw Danny Howells play he was using CDJs and ing up pretty badly. |
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| discobiscuit |
i can see what you're saying but.... its 2012. not many people today appreciate the skills you speak of. they would rather hear some crazy original stuff, remixes, or a producer/dj. just a regular dj from the 90's mixing 2 records is too boring for people today. you can argue that turntables are more hands on and ppl don't like to watch a person push buttons. most people can't see what the hell ur doing anyway...
the thing about digital that is attractive is you can take music and change it. make it your own. and it makes things easy convenient.
im a turntablist I've owned it all. I gig on 2 technics and serato. kinda the best of both worlds. i
i use ableton and all the controllers too. but not outside the house. I just do little edits, extends, vips, and jam out if I'm bored.
There is a lot of out there in the digital music world. here in a min you will see some really good people break away from the crowd and maybe be impressed by a digital song.
The best djs in my opinion are musicians/producers/djs and can do it all. And do it all well.
turntables, computers, keyboards, cdjs, they are all tools the more you know how to use the better |
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| Ever |
I feel ya OP. I'm just now getting back into DJ'ing, and most everything was vinyl when I was more active.
That said, I agree that drifting and imperfection added some "soul" to the mixes. Other people hit it well - it makes it exciting because you're reminded of how easily it could trainwreck, of the care being given to the mix, etc.
I agree that digital opens more doors for DJs to focus on, but it doesn't mean it can't be missed. Good analogy is listening to a classic drummer versus a drum machine. :ducks: |
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| Nemesis44 |
It's been a while since I posted but how is everyone?
Sorry to say it but I didn't rate the example on the youtube clip, that was pretty horrible, but in it's time it was common place amongst DJs.
Looney4Clooney is right about the deck molesters, I enjoy listening to a good vinyl set where the guys/girl knows how to ride the pitch, makes for much smoother transitions and better corrections.
I moved over to digital completely about a year or two ago now. I still enjoy the act of DJing and have brought my head around to it. It did take a while as I was stuck in the old school of thought i.e. if it wasn't vinyl then it wasn't real.
Then I woke up and realised that I was living in the past, and what a redundant skill beatmatching was. I am one of those DJs who can match two records without having to recue basically. Just a few flicks of the pitch and it was there. But after many many years of repetition it would be a crime if I couldn't.
I like messing with 4 decks now, but always remain concious of the listener as they aren't always up for people messing with big tracks. There is an art to knowing when to mess and not to.
I miss the old days for sure, and there was a completely different status to being a good DJ in those days.
I would say that the art isn't dead though, and it's when you find out how to bridge the gap in your own mind and transfer the skills sets that it will all make sense.
When I transfered these skills I actually found a new enthusiasm for what I was doing.
I would say that the thing that put me off switching to Digital in the first place was other Digital DJs not the format itself. Probably sounds weird.
Ultimately it should be fun, and perhaps you just need to put your pre-conceptions aside and look at it for what it is.
Cheers
Nem |
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| Ever |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
It's been a while since I posted but how is everyone?
Sorry to say it but I didn't rate the example on the youtube clip, that was pretty horrible, but in it's time it was common place amongst DJs.
Looney4Clooney is right about the deck molesters, I enjoy listening to a good vinyl set where the guys/girl knows how to ride the pitch, makes for much smoother transitions and better corrections.
I moved over to digital completely about a year or two ago now. I still enjoy the act of DJing and have brought my head around to it. It did take a while as I was stuck in the old school of thought i.e. if it wasn't vinyl then it wasn't real.
Then I woke up and realised that I was living in the past, and what a redundant skill beatmatching was. I am one of those DJs who can match two records without having to recue basically. Just a few flicks of the pitch and it was there. But after many many years of repetition it would be a crime if I couldn't.
I like messing with 4 decks now, but always remain concious of the listener as they aren't always up for people messing with big tracks. There is an art to knowing when to mess and not to.
I miss the old days for sure, and there was a completely different status to being a good DJ in those days.
I would say that the art isn't dead though, and it's when you find out how to bridge the gap in your own mind and transfer the skills sets that it will all make sense.
When I transfered these skills I actually found a new enthusiasm for what I was doing.
I would say that the thing that put me off switching to Digital in the first place was other Digital DJs not the format itself. Probably sounds weird.
Ultimately it should be fun, and perhaps you just need to put your pre-conceptions aside and look at it for what it is.
Cheers
Nem |
Totally feel you.
What is your preferred format now that you've transferred over? |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ever
Totally feel you.
What is your preferred format now that you've transferred over? |
It's all pros and cons to be fair.
To be honest, I would have to go with digital (never thought I would say that) as I am no longer constrained by the vinyl format. In other words I can play anything i can get my hands on, and throw in my own stuff and other producers whom I know.
I am no longer forced to be a slave to what is available in the record shop or what the wallet will allow as MP3s are fairly cheap especially compared to vinyl.
I know that CDJs have been around for a long time, and I know that many still prefer them over a laptop, but I found that its such a middle ground that I don't care for it.
I don't bother with beatmatching anymore, that's not to say I can't do it... I have been doing it for nearly 28 years, hopefully I learned that at some point. ;) But I just enjoy the freedom of really working on track selection and smooth mixing.
Cheers
Nem |
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| DJ RANN |
I've long been saying that the ilk of digital dj's have done very little for Dj'ing in terms of quality of music and performance.
I agree that the potential is certainly there; the point of beatmatching was to create a flawless timing transition between two tracks, which back in the days of only vinyl, was a skill in itself and bear in mind, that once upon a time, there were no video tutorials on how to beatmatch or dj. there were no such things as DJ schools. In the old days, you had to just watch other DJ's do their thing or be lucky enough to have a pro DJ show you how to mix. Beatmatching by itself was a skill that had to be learned and not many people (at least comparatively) could do it.
Now, there's really no merit to beatmatching as a skill - tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of people can do it, and with technology now providing the ability to do it for you, the need is moot.
However, the problem with digital comes both with the format itself and technology;
The possibility of doing amazing things in creative terms (now the technical aspects like beatmatching which once were difficult, are a given and rightly taken for granted) have not be realized IMO due to the drawbacks of the medium itself. The laptop in a DJ booth provides both a psychological and physical barrier for the DJ and the crowd. The DJ, no matter how much a performer or master of the technology is forced to look at a computer screen, detaching themselves from the performance aspect and the crowd. It immediately takes them back to sitting at a desk where the majority of computer use takes place.
By the same token, it's crap for a punter to go up and shake the hand of the guy "working the laptop". No matter how you try to glaze it, it's still the same - the crowd is listening to music, at least selected, if not played by a laptop. It's simply not the same as a DJ working Turntables or CDJ's where there is a clear tactile relationship and rhythmic element to what they're doing. Tapping the touchpad just isn't the same.
Ever noticed how guys working TT's or CDJ's can really dance and get in to yet, the laptop dj's all have that classic hunch and head-nod at best? This matters in a real club.
More options doesn't mean better music or performance. We've all learned that tons of development with FX and toys has not equaled either better music or DJ performances. Just more FX and toys. In fact I'm glad that trend has learned moderation - The novelty has worn off and the focus should be the music, not how many chains of FX you can slap on a track.
Same thing with DJ software. It hasn't brought the promise of this better music to fruition. DJ's on the whole have just got lazier or focus on the tricks rather than substance. Many people who never would have made it in the previous times due to lack of commitment or learning the craft or dedication of time etc, now can play out just by downloading a music collection.
Being forced to learn Beatmatching also taught you innumerable things about the nature of music and your tracks, not to mention, listening to your tracks over and over again, knowing those cue points, knowing those sounds, knowing the structure and learning phrasing the hard way. Now you can just look at a waveform to judge the cue point and people starting out aren't getting that baptism. Sure, you can learn your music in the same way as was essential before, but you have to make the effort to do it now and in that way, technology has offered easy shortcuts that can easily make you skip vital things that make up the learning process.
The final point of having more music at your fingertips also hasn't really helped music or DJ'ing as such. Even if you're jeff mills, You can only play 60 tracks in two hours and that means needing a total of what? 150 tracks to choose from? That's two record boxes.
If you're DJ'ing trance, chances are you're playing 30 tracks in two hours, tops. So why do you need 5,000 tracks at your disposal? I would much prefer to hear a guy that has truly learned and knows 100 in his box (and therefore a better understanding of how to work them) than someone who vaguely knows 1000 tracks and is really guessing with the other 4000, just in case they need that selection.
For me at least, great selection, timing, technique and performance are the most important things, not having a million tracks and tons of FX. |
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