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should high-income earners get taxed more than everyone else? (pg. 8)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
I don't think you give enough weight to a dollar being a dollar.
He made that dollar fair and square AND he is contributing more money towards taxation than over 130 people making 50,000 dollars lets say on an average tax rate of 30%. 130 ing people! Now sure that marginal rate seems low, but if all his money is comming from investments that's fair.
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Bull. My whole point is about the weight of dollar, and that material goods don't upwardly change price relative to what you earn, which is why anyone making 8 figures A YEAR should damn well pay more. It's absurd that I pay proportionately more tax than him and I employ four people to do it. By those ratios he contributes literally all to the economy.
Have you actually look at and understood how Romney made his money?
You don't "earn" half a billion dollars working in finance and restructuring.
You (to take the phrase you keep applying to taxes) gouge it out of businesses and the people working for them.
You do as Mitt did; You buy companies that are struggling and gut them of any expense so they look like a turkey that has been force fed with butter, then sell it on because for a few moments, it looks good on paper. Then a year later it folds because anything of any worth was stripped from it.
And he then takes an incredibly high fee from supplying this amazing service, further causing debt and default for any other invested parties.
He does next to nothing to contribute to the economy with his actions; If he lived in virtually any other country he would be paying something like $25m a year in taxes, and guess what? He'd still have $2m a month to live off, and that's not including his existing fortune - I'm just talking new money.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
If you did the same thing with less money you as well would be paying an even lower rate than you currently pay.
so why cry about it? why don't you do the same thing. See how easy it is to make your earnings 95% capital gains. Try to make them even 10%; and you'll realize the necessity of having investments taxed at a low rate.
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It's not difficult to make money from investments and the thing is, the more you have the easier it gets, and that again is another reason
you should be taxed more if you earn more. Your ability to create wealth increases with wealth.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
We have the right idea in canada where we can actually have accounts which we can invest TAX FREE.
thats right. I can turn 25,000 to 50,000 to 100,000 without paying a dime in tax. Why does the canadian govt do this? because they want to stimulate the economy with investments.
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Yep, good idea for small investors and that's why Canada caps them. They understand that small investors actually contribute, and that large/huge investors do not contribute in the same way or proportionately.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
If everyone just sat there and hoarded their money in their pocket, there would be no opportunity, no demand for goods and probably a load of deflation.
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No one is suggesting that for a second. Hoarding capital is bad for economies, and thereing lies the problem with the fallacy of trickle down economics. Fewer and fewer people have a larger share of the wealth, which IS tantamount to hoarding. As both the current climate and history has shown us, individuals with massive wealth do not contribute to an economy anywhere near as well as many people with some wealth.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
I think people need to stop harping on those that do well and make a good life for themselves and instead look at some of those people who truly are destroying the economy; Particularily those who are severely living beyond their means.
Those who declare bankrupcy and drain their debts on society; those who hold tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debts. Those who drain the welfare system buy the newest iphone and then complain about corporations and unfair taxrates slothing around in their burkenstocks.
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The "takers" are an easy target so let's just nip that conversation right there, but I agree that many people live beyond their means and that's not good (although actually it is good for banks as they make far more money off these people than good borrowers but that's a different subject).
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
I don't earn six figures, i earn 5. And i can sometimes get an overall tax rate of less than 11 % (last year) that's my total taxes paid divided by my total income earned after investments as well (which was 30% of my annual income).
I can't live off investing income, but i'm damn happy that the government doesnt gouge me to with taxes to the point where i'm unable to diversify my income.
I also pay a mortgage which i don't write off, so the extra income comes in handy.
So there you have it. 2012 i paied less income tax than mitt romney; i don't see him complaining.
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Yep, but you can't buy a new car with one hour's worth of pay and he can. See where I'm going? you shouldn't have a high tax burden, he should, because, simply put he can afford it and then some. In fact he earns more in a day that you do in a year, yet, you think he should be rewarded with a lower tax rate because somehow he personal fortune (that is certainly personal) contributes to the economy.
Sorry but there's simply no logic, other than you're defending your own breed, which is kinda dumb as he wouldn't give you the steam off his on a cold winter's day. And again, this is where the Romney's and the Bush's and the GOP in general have done such a good job of selling a dream you'll never own. "Like me, defend me, because I'm rich and you could be too if you just believed".
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
The mortgage holders who are partially the victims are also to blame for the downturn (Don't forget that). You are ing leveraging yourlself to with your house thinking that it can only go up in value? Thats like thinking the stock market only goes up. Your house is 1 big ing stock that you live in. No more no less.
Then when the going gets tough and your mortgage is worth more than hte value of the house - you default? Well thank you very much; had i knew what i ing knew now then i would have shorted the ing dow all the way to 7k. back in 08
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Agree - people were complete idiots about property, but in terms of value and signing up to loan products they simply couldn't afford. Both consumers and banks were totally to blame. I know two people who lost their dream houses but now the dust has settled, they look back and go "what was I thinking". People knew they were out of their depth but thought they could chance it. Now that everyone has had a relaity check they look back and say i'll never take a risk like that again.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
anyways a bit of a rant here. Just want to vocalize that there are two sides to the story here. And the fact is that mitt romney still paid a load of taxes; more than that of 130 medium to high income earners combined.
Do i think we need some more regulation ? yes. Higher marginal tax rates? perhaps. Higher investment taxation? definitely not. |
There are but as I said before, I know a couple of high net worth people in other countries who pay high tax rates and it's both admirable and inspiring to see them absoluely fine and nearly their "duty" to pay a higher tax rate. |
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| Vivid Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
And you are a conspiracy nutjob who should play in the streets, preferably one of our highways, and get hit, preferably by a private automobile.
That or die in a fire. Either one would be a more productive use of electricity than you ranting about a level of corruption that doesn't exist. |
are you kidding me nou??? you dont think there is corruption? what world do you live on? You have been way too hidden in your basement for wayy too long. some countries dont have little corruption but some are supported on it. |
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| Vivid Boy |
I just think its funny all of you think this woprld should be fair. Oh they were born into money so thy should be taxed harder but those that made it on their own, ya, thats a grey area.
welcome to the real world...Nothing is fair. Either learn to play the cards your dealt or don't get anything you want in this life. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vivid Boy
I just think its funny all of you think this woprld should be fair. Oh they were born into money so thy should be taxed harder but those that made it on their own, ya, thats a grey area.
welcome to the real world...Nothing is fair. Either learn to play the cards your dealt or don't get anything you want in this life. |
economics, taxation, redistribution etc are human constructs. we can design such systems in any way we choose, with any goals (fairness?) in mind that we wish. human society is not synonymous with the darwinism of the natural world. |
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| Vivid Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
economics, taxation, redistribution etc are human constructs. we can design such systems in any way we choose, with any goals (fairness?) in mind that we wish. human society is not synonymous with the darwinism of the natural world. |
I understand that, but destroying motivation is a good way to destroy an economy |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vivid Boy
I understand that, but destroying motivation is a good way to destroy an economy |
So if you were taxed at a significantly higher rate than you are today you'd just stop working and go be a bum on the streets.
Highly unlikely. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vivid Boy
I understand that, but destroying motivation is a good way to destroy an economy |
well sure, i agree with that sentiment. i disagree however that higher tax rates on wealthier individuals necessarily destroys motivation. |
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| Vivid Boy |
| I understand that too however government gives incentives and tax breaks in certain areas in order to motivate people to spend their money in certain ways to help boost the economy....in theory. However I am a Canadian and our government does intervene a whole lot more than in the states. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vivid Boy
I understand that too however government gives incentives and tax breaks in certain areas in order to motivate people to spend their money in certain ways to help boost the economy....in theory. However I am a Canadian and our government does intervene a whole lot more than in the states. |
Except there is almost no proof that private individuals, especially in this day and age are significant contributors to economic growth based solely on their private income. Its smoke and mirrors for people that want to continue to accumulate more wealth than they, or the next 4 generations of their family could possibly ever spend. It is a way to create a new privileged class that will, over time, become more and more slovenly and uninitiated and even more unlikely to actually use their own personal money to grow the economy.
This is how you return to serfdom. It is not the way forward. |
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| Vivid Boy |
I would love to go into case studies like Ontario's Wine industry and show you plain examples were tax breaks, grants and bursaries revitalized a dead industry and the whole story of ice wine. However, I write essays for school not for ta lol. you can do your own research.
Once again though Canada takes a way bigger hands on approach with its government so we are kind of comparing Apples to Oranges here. |
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| zGoogleman |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
And you are a conspiracy nutjob who should play in the streets, preferably one of our highways, and get hit, preferably by a private automobile.
That or die in a fire. Either one would be a more productive use of electricity than you ranting about a level of corruption that doesn't exist. |
You're one of those stupid Americans that believes there is no corruption in the states. Exactly why Americans are the best populace for a dictator. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by zGoogleman
You're one of those stupid Americans that believes there is no corruption in the states. Exactly why Americans are the best populace for a dictator. |
Why would I argue with someone who ing can't read english well enough to even establish what I said?
Seriously, play in a busy street. |
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