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Ishkurs Guide (pg. 3)
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| Ishkur |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
Btw Ishkur flamed me on here once when I predicted that dance music was swallowing hip-hop after listening to "The Way I Are" by Timbaland. He insisted that "hip-hop" can take anything it wants and still be hip-hop. He was wrong. I was right. Dance ate hip-hop almost thanks solely to David Guetta. |
First of all, you didn't say "dance" music, you said "trance" music. Dance music is such a nebulous term anyway; anything played at a club is dance music. Hip hop is dance. House is dance. Trance is dance. R&B is dance. Anything that's not downtempo or chill out is dance music. Saying dance music took over hip hop is completely meaningless.
Secondly, you're wrong: Trance music did not take over hip hop. Timbaland's track was hardly trance to begin with, and it was a one-off that spawned nothing. Today's hip hop is almost entirely dominated by trap/bass music, R&B, Moombah, and some dubstep. But mostly bass. The 4-to-the-floor kick is still not that prominent in hip hop (Flo Rida notwithstanding).
Besides, it's not like rapping over a 4/4 kick is a new thing (and remember: That was not far removed from this or this)
In fact, at the time that we had our argument no one could have seen the rise of dubstep which took over everything. So you can't possibly claim prescience at any rate.
Hang your hat on that. |
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| Ishkur |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
As for the next version of Ishkur's Guide... maybe he'll release it one day, but it's a lost cause even if it happens. In 2002 he was 24, he was a regular clubber, he was right on the pulse of everything that was happening and his satire and acerbic commentary cut right to the bone. Now he's in his mid-30s, he doesn't go out very much and he is no longer a central participant but someone stood on the outside trying to figure out what's going on in the cultural maelstrom. It took the guy about three years to catch up with who Burial is. The old Guide was someone expertly pointing out the silly little rituals and self-importance of all these little scenes with expertise. The new Guide is just going to be some out-of-touch guy complaining about a lot of music that has no real impact on his life. |
This is somewhat correct, but mostly ignorant.
I think the things that you're worried/complaining about are what will make the next guide better. Yes, I'm older. I'm wiser, more knowledgeable, more mature, more seasoned. That doesn't make me out of touch; it makes me more contemplative and more capable of taking a holistic view of things given the vast swarths of information that I have compiled over the years. It bolsters my ambitions instead of hampering them.
Yes, I had to play catchup because there was a black hole of around 2006-2009 where I didn't listen to any music or do any research. I was concentrating on things like family, work, life, etc. But it's not hard to fill in those gaps, and I've strategically delegated authority of some scenes to liaisons whom I trust and whom have specified knowledge that thoroughly outstrips mine. Through marathon sessions of music and beer, they have kept me up to date (because unlike 10 years ago, electronic music is now way too large and expansive for one person to keep track all by himself. It was inevitable -- I needed a team, and some parts of the guide will be constructed by committee)
(And no, it's not going to be full of old guy ranting that all new music is garbage. Quite frankly, I actually enjoy most of the new music coming out. Except dubstep)
The previous guides were pisstakes. They were largely in-jokes -- from a scenester for scenesters. Most of the crap they spewed was juvenile, puerile nonsense and not meant for general consumption. I dwelt in underground culture so I only spoke of and to underground culture. Yes, that put me in a privileged position to disseminate my scathing observations but at the same time it made the guide (and me) something that a lot of people thought was important and meaningful but unfortunately not very accessible.
So I was not prepared for the overwhelming response to it (most of it positive). From a Harvard professor using it in a course, to a PhD student at the University of Washington dissecting it as a dissertation on User Interface Design (and even used at a UX conference on how to display bulk information for easy understandability), to the calls for interviews from magazines and radio programs, to the constant requests to translate it for foreign audiences, from Russian to Chinese to Tagalog (I turned them all down. I didn't think my jokes would translate well)... people were using it in ways it wasn't intended (despite the disclaimer). It was being passed around as an education primer which is why Discogs absolutely despised it.
People were seeing things in it that I didn't. And after awhile I began to agree with them.
The guide can be more. It can be better, more accurate, more thorough, and will cover EVERYTHING as much as it possibly can. There will be more text content in the form of essays and articles about histories and progressions of scenes and genres (much like the Tutorial thing on the old guide), some of them cribbed from posts I've made right here on TranceAddict. It will still carry the same overly-opinionated snark but it will sound less like an amateurish screed from a ranting, caustic teenager and more like a series of astute, intellectual observations from someone who's been listening to this music for a very, very long time. In other words, less swearing and more thesaurus.
(and of course, there will be an option to ignore all text and just listen to the music)
If this excites you, feel free to follow the Twitter account to keep abreast of our progress. If you'd like to help out, get in touch with me and let me know what your area of expertise is. I'm always on the look out for new music. |
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| netroM |
| Will the new guide feature Embers Breaks? |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
This is somewhat correct, but mostly ignorant.
I think the things that you're worried/complaining about are what will make the next guide better. Yes, I'm older. I'm wiser, more knowledgeable, more mature, more seasoned. That doesn't make me out of touch; it makes me more contemplative and more capable of taking a holistic view of things given the vast swarths of information that I have compiled over the years. It bolsters my ambitions instead of hampering them.
Yes, I had to play catchup because there was a black hole of around 2006-2009 where I didn't listen to any music or do any research. I was concentrating on things like family, work, life, etc. But it's not hard to fill in those gaps, and I've strategically delegated authority of some scenes to liaisons whom I trust and whom have specified knowledge that thoroughly outstrips mine. Through marathon sessions of music and beer, they have kept me up to date (because unlike 10 years ago, electronic music is now way too large and expansive for one person to keep track all by himself. It was inevitable -- I needed a team, and some parts of the guide will be constructed by committee)
(And no, it's not going to be full of old guy ranting that all new music is garbage. Quite frankly, I actually enjoy most of the new music coming out. Except dubstep)
The previous guides were pisstakes. They were largely in-jokes -- from a scenester for scenesters. Most of the crap they spewed was juvenile, puerile nonsense and not meant for general consumption. I dwelt in underground culture so I only spoke of and to underground culture. Yes, that put me in a privileged position to disseminate my scathing observations but at the same time it made the guide (and me) something that a lot of people thought was important and meaningful but unfortunately not very accessible.
So I was not prepared for the overwhelming response to it (most of it positive). From a Harvard professor using it in a course, to a PhD student at the University of Washington dissecting it as a dissertation on User Interface Design (and even used at a UX conference on how to display bulk information for easy understandability), to the calls for interviews from magazines and radio programs, to the constant requests to translate it for foreign audiences, from Russian to Chinese to Tagalog (I turned them all down. I didn't think my jokes would translate well)... people were using it in ways it wasn't intended (despite the disclaimer). It was being passed around as an education primer which is why Discogs absolutely despised it.
People were seeing things in it that I didn't. And after awhile I began to agree with them.
The guide can be more. It can be better, more accurate, more thorough, and will cover EVERYTHING as much as it possibly can. There will be more text content in the form of essays and articles about histories and progressions of scenes and genres (much like the Tutorial thing on the old guide), some of them cribbed from posts I've made right here on TranceAddict. It will still carry the same overly-opinionated snark but it will sound less like an amateurish screed from a ranting, caustic teenager and more like a series of astute, intellectual observations from someone who's been listening to this music for a very, very long time. In other words, less swearing and more thesaurus.
(and of course, there will be an option to ignore all text and just listen to the music)
If this excites you, feel free to follow the Twitter account to keep abreast of our progress. If you'd like to help out, get in touch with me and let me know what your area of expertise is. I'm always on the look out for new music. |
Soooo...rave next week? :gsmile: |
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| rdevito |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
Have you ever played an old RPG where you go into a cavern looking for loot, and you think its a short cave but then you climb down some stairs or open a door and a whole labyrinth opens up before you? And you're like "holy jesus, this is going to take days to explore." And so you meticulously go through every passageway and dead end mapping it all out, but the cave doesn't seem to have an end? Every passageway leads to a fork with more passageways and more stairs to more dungeons and it just keeps on going forever?
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It's an amazing feeling, specially on Dungeons & Dragons :) |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
This is somewhat correct, but mostly ignorant.
I think the things that you're worried/complaining about are what will make the next guide better. Yes, I'm older. I'm wiser, more knowledgeable, more mature, more seasoned. That doesn't make me out of touch; it makes me more contemplative and more capable of taking a holistic view of things given the vast swarths of information that I have compiled over the years. It bolsters my ambitions instead of hampering them. |
You can save me the sales pitch, Kent. What made the original Guide good was precisely how it wasn't mature, contemplative and holistic, because the topic being dissected wasn't any of those things either. 50% of the appeal was the snappy layout, which you've spent the last decade trying to one-up with a new model to better represent the unrepresentable, and the other 50% was the satire.
I know you're addressing the camera more than you are me, but I've read your more recent posts about "the state of the scene" and so on, and I'll draw my own conclusions about how close your finger is to the pulse. |
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| Ishkur |
I know you miss having a sparring partner, Jack, but I'm not interested in arguing with you anymore.
I've grown up. I suggest you should too.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I've read your more recent posts about "the state of the scene" |
What posts? |
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| Ishkur |
| quote: | Originally posted by netroM
Will the new guide feature Embers Breaks? |
One guy spamming multiple forums does not a genre make.
More prosaically, one guy making music he didn't know existed before he was born does not make it a brand new genre. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
One guy spamming multiple forums does not a genre make.
More prosaically, one guy making music he didn't know existed before he was born does not make it a brand new genre. |
I think he was joking, mate :p |
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| Lews |
| In all seriousness, why are you being serious about the new guide? Do you want more academic credentials? That's not a rhetorical or facetious question, I'm genuinely curious. The tongue in cheek and lack of seriousness was what made the original so fantastic, imo. |
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| Paradox Lost |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
In all seriousness, why are you being serious about the new guide? Do you want more academic credentials? That's not a rhetorical or facetious question, I'm genuinely curious. The tongue in cheek and lack of seriousness was what made the original so fantastic, imo. |
This. The original version disclaimed from the beginning that it was intended to entertain before it educates, and I hope this continues to be the priority in whatever incarnation it takes next. |
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