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Oh, Israel. Hey guys wanna fight WW3? (pg. 2)
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by zGoogleman
I have my doubts though. Syria has proven time and time again that they are not competent. |
Yea the skills of the crews is really important. In Vietnam there was a wide range of difference between the Russian manned SAMs and the NVA crewed ones.
Same in Allied Force in '99. Serbian air defenses were wiped out pretty quickly, despite some clever tactics, just due to noobish mistakes, like failing to cycle radars when they knew sorties were incoming. |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Israel would probably happier with a stable Assad than this cluster.
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We all would be happier with that. This situation is FUBAR. |
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| acillarr |
Failure to strike would be a permanent threat to Israel's airforce.
\\9M96E2 range 120 km 75 mi
That is effectively the entire north of Israel. North of Haifa.
It would be a block against air actions in the North of Israel both the Lebanon theatre and West Bank.
Atleast until the f35's are rolled out. They may give Israel a first strike capacity using internal weapons bays for targetted strikes.
48N6E2 missile could cover almost the air space of Tel Aviv. |
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| hardcore trancer |
Looks like Syria has received the shipment or at least parts of it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/31/w...wanted=all&_r=0
| quote: |
Assad Says Syria Has Received Advanced Missiles From Russia
BEIRUT, Lebanon — President Bashar al-Assad of Syria said in a television interview to be broadcast on Thursday that Russia had delivered an S-300 air defense missile system to his country, weapons that Israel has said present a threat to its security and against which it is willing to use force.
“Syria has received the first shipment of Russian antiaircraft S-300 rockets,” Mr. Assad said in the interview, to be broadcast on Al Manar, the television channel of Hezbollah, the Lebanese Shiite militant group, which in recent weeks has dramatically increased its military intervention in Syria on the side of Mr. Assad’s government. “The rest of the shipment will arrive later today.”
Russian officials had said earlier this week that the country would deliver the weapons to Syria, a move that Mr. Assad’s opponents said was a sign that neither Russia nor the Syrian government was serious about proposed negotiations to end the Syrian civil war that Russia and the United States are trying to organize for as early as next month.
The interview with Mr. Assad was taped on Tuesday, according to the Beirut news director of Iran’s English-language Press TV. That same day, Israel’s defense minister declared categorically that the missile systems had not yet been delivered.
A senior Israeli official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of diplomatic constraints, said on Thursday that the S-300 missile systems “do not just come in a box” and that different elements would probably be delivered in stages. It is possible, he said, that some parts have arrived in Syria, but there is no indication at this stage that the systems are anywhere near operational.
Secretary of State John Kerry has raised the issue of the arms sales with the Russians, even as he and the Russian foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, are trying to arrange a meeting between the Assad government and the rebels. Asked about the missiles and Israeli warnings that the deliveries of them would pose a threat to Israel, the State Department’s spokeswoman, Jen Psaki, said on Wednesday: “We support Israel’s ability to defend themselves, certainly, but we remain hopeful and remain committed to working towards a political transition. And that’s what our focus is here on Syria.”
In Washington, Caitlin Hayden, the spokeswoman for the National Security Council, said on Thursday that although she could not comment on specific arms shipments, “our concerns about Russia’s continued support for the Syrian regime through the provision of arms and access to Russian banks are well known.”
“Providing additional weapons to Assad — including air defense systems — will only prolong the violence in Syria and incite regional destabilization,” she added.
The Syrian government and the opposition have hardened their positions in recent days, casting doubt on the future of the proposed talks as each side declares a starting point that is thoroughly unacceptable to the other.
On Wednesday, the Syrian opposition said Mr. Assad’s departure was a prerequisite of talks — a condition his government and Russia reject — while Syria’s foreign minister said that Mr. Assad would stay on at least until 2014 and might seek re-election and that any peace agreement would have to be approved by a referendum.
Mr. Assad’s statements — and the choice of the Hezbollah channel to deliver them — added to the confrontational atmosphere. His statements were first reported in the Lebanese newspaper Al Akhbar and confirmed by Ali Rizk, who conducted a simultaneous translation of the interview that will be broadcast on Iran’s Press TV.
Syrian rebel commanders have also issued aggressive statements in recent days, threatening to attack Hezbollah and even the Lebanese Army inside Lebanon if Hezbollah’s intervention is not halted.
Late Wednesday, Lebanon’s president, Michel Suleiman, a political ally of Hezbollah, issued an unusual statement calling on Hezbollah to pull out of Syria for the sake of Lebanese security and the integrity of the group’s primary mission, fighting Israel.
Lebanese politicians of every stripe have been loath to directly confront Hezbollah, which fields the most seasoned and influential military force in the country, trumping even the army. But as rocket attacks on Hezbollah areas have increased along with sectarian anger, a growing chorus has expressed fears that Hezbollah, fighting on the Syrian government side, and Lebanese Sunni militants supporting the rebels are destabilizing the country.
Mr. Suleiman said he wished that Hezbollah’s chief, Hassan Nasrallah, would not “involve the resistance” — as Hezbollah and its confrontation with Israel are known here — in Syria’s war.
He even compared Hezbollah’s intervention — which its leaders and supporters have described as a pre-emptive war to prevent Sunni extremists involved in the Syrian uprising from infiltrating or attacking Lebanon — to the pre-emptive war doctrine President George W. Bush formulated to justify the United States invasion of Iraq.
“I am against anything pre-emptive, like the wars of ex-U.S. President George Bush,” Mr. Suleiman said, a stinging rebuke in a region where American foreign policy in general and Mr. Bush in particular are deeply unpopular.
Mr. Suleiman also said he opposed Hezbollah’s plans to help the Syrian government open a front in the Golan Heights, the disputed border area between Syria and Israel. “Who guarantees that Israel does not attack Lebanon?” he said.
The missile shipment also threatens to escalate tensions between Israel and Hezbollah. Neither side wants a war now, analysts say, but as the situation grows more volatile they could end up in one through miscalculations, as occurred in 2006.
Israel has lobbied Russia not to deliver the S-300 missiles to Syria. Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon warned on Tuesday that Israel would view such a move as a threat and that it could prompt an Israeli reaction.
“The deliveries have not taken place, I can attest to this, and I hope they do not,” Mr. Yaalon said. “If, by some fortune, they arrive in Syria, we will know what to do.”
Three major Israeli newspapers reported on Thursday that Israel’s national security adviser recently told a group of European ambassadors that Israel’s red line regarding the S-300s was the point at which they become operational. The Israeli official, who requested anonymity, said that the S-300 was a “very advanced and complicated system” and that different functions could become operational at different times.
Israel has long opposed Russian plans to supply Syria with the S-300 antiaircraft system. Since the outbreak of the civil war in Syria, Israel has also declared that it will not tolerate the transfer of game-changing weapons from the Syrian government to Hezbollah or the possibility that they could fall into the hands of extremist rebels. Israel is believed to have bombed targets in Syria three times this year, including a convoy of Russian-supplied SA-17 surface-to-air missiles.
Yuval Steinitz, Israel’s minister of strategic and intelligence affairs, told an audience of reporters and diplomats in Jerusalem on Tuesday that Israel did not want to get involved in the civil war in Syria and had decided not to ask or encourage the United States or Europe to take any action there, because of the highly complex situation.
He said the Russian S-300 system could be used offensively as well as defensively. With a range of around 125 to 185 miles, he said, its missiles could threaten civilian and military aircraft deep inside Israeli territory.
There was no immediate official comment from Russia on the Assad interview, but state-run news outlets reported the details of the transcript of his interview.
A spokesman for Britain’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office, who asked not to be identified in line with government policy, said, “This is an unhelpful decision by the Russians, supplying to a regime that has shown itself to be incapable of using its weapons systems proportionately or discriminatingly.” |
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| Adam420 |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Looks like Syria has received the shipment or at least parts of it. |
And that makes you really happy, right? |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
And that makes you really happy, right? |
No but this development certainly will be a game changer in Syria. Lets see if Israel attacks Syria again. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
No but this development certainly will be a game changer in Syria. Lets see if Israel attacks Syria again. |
Israel can take out S-300, it just requires a lot more work.
Also I doubt the Syrian air defense operators will be competent enough to handle a real attack. Training is one thing, the real thing is altogether different. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Also I doubt the Syrian air defense operators will be competent enough to handle a real attack. Training is one thing, the real thing is altogether different. |
Isnt there a possibility that the air defense operators might be Russian? |
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| Lews |
| They're not that stupid. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Isnt there a possibility that the air defense operators might be Russian? |
Some might be, but this isn't the proxy wars of the 60s/70s. The Russians have an interest in Syria, but not enough for that I think.
Also I don't think that even the Russians are that good. The US and NATO, and Israel all come from the same school of fighting, they have real experience fighting highly integrated air defense systems. Is it hard? Yes. Can it be done with minimal casualties? Yes. |
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| DJ RANN |
Did you read the article? Is was hezbollah's own TV channel that sent text message that stated it, not the syrians or assad, and all the intelligence bureaus state that's it's "weeks away" at best, if not "sometime this year".
Good news...
Reinforcements arrive for the rebels:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22728798 |
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