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Breakdown vs. Buildup
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| Barkmull |
I know there are a lot of talented DJ's out there and I have a question for you. I play from time to time at a local club. Most trance/techno follow a pretty similar syntax. The intro and then a brekdown leading to the first buildup. Now, I find that many of the songs that I play are really good and dancable before the first breakdown/buildup. When I mix it in before the first breakdown I find that a lot of people leave the dancefloor when I reach the first breakdown.
How do you combat this? Do you just play the last 3-4 minuites of the song or do you suck it up and play through the breakdown?
An example would be:
Lange - Follow Me
I know it is an old song, but it is still one of my favs. I like to mix it in in the beginning of the song, but when the (IMO, awesome) vocals start and there is no beat, a lot of people leave the dancefloor.
Is this something you just deal with or....??? |
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| CarlosM |
| I have the same feelling... :( |
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| YuVaL |
ty crowed i'd say
;) |
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| Pjotr G |
| then keep your other record in the mix so that you can put its beats over the other songs breakdown. Should be a rithmic record tho |
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| hey cheggy |
Mixing the beat of one song over the breakdown of another song usually sounds pretty average. Your options are to either mix out of the song before the second breakdown, although this isn't usually possible with most trance songs. It is with house and some techno/tribal, but not trance, as you end up stuffing up the build which is occuring by mixing through it.
Personally, it sounds like you've got a crappy crowd who don't really like the music. Not much you can do about this, except find a style that they like more. This is something i don't think you'd want to do though. Maybe just try to play less songs with mammoth breakdowns in them, or get a drum machine or something and lay down some 3/4 beats over the vocals. This can sound wicked, but drum machines are expensive |
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| Intrinzic |
Wow... I know exactly what you're talking about Barklmull! It's definitely frustrating and this is one of by biggest pet peeves. Overall, dance crowds want a constant beat. Even those who know their music. I can get away with one maybe two songs like this a night... usually as my big crescendo of the evening. Depending on the timing... when the beat stops, the momentum stops (albeit briefly)... and the crowd transitions to taking a break or getting a drink. Savvy crowd or not, no DJ wants to see his/her dance floor clear.
Mixing in/out of the breakdown/buildup is not always easy, since it shortens the song and just doesn't always sound right.
I love my vinyl, but I've been toying with the idea of digitally maninipulating some favorite songs on a wav-editor to give more of a dance-floor friendly flow. It's tedious and takes a lot of time, but there's some great songs that have a 128 beat buildup that I know will frustrate the crowd. |
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| DJ Dowlz |
I know exactly what you're talking about Barkmull. The mammoth breakdown, the mammoth buildup, the crowd leaving in between. If you try to mix your songs so that the bass line of the 1st track continues into the breakdown, invariably it will sound horrible. The only suggestion I can make is have the MC make some noise or something, but whether or not that would work, I have no idea. Other than that, I guess you could digitally edit the songs or use radio edits. Or perhaps you could make the mixes quickers? A good way to shorten mixes is to slam in a song by using the delay feature of the DJM600 set on 1/2 beat (200%). This will double the beat rate and so will make the effect of an artificial buildup. But that still doesn't eleviate the problem of the breakdown. Perhaps during the breakdown you could use effects such as flanger or filter to keep the crowd interested.
*I really feel for you* |
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| Devbert |
| Honestly, it sounds like the crowd is your standard club crowd and they dont like trance |
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| Barkmull |
Thanks all for the great feedback!
As far as the crowd goes, perhaps you are right about them being a standard club crowd. However, they really seem to like the music. Well, at least they tell me so.
I have been playing around with altering the songs digitally in order to keep some sort of beat going. This takes forever, though and is a pain in the ass.:whip:
Maybe I should just keep playing the way I have been and eventually the crowd will figure out that the best is yet to come, when the breakdown starts.
Again, thanks all...:tongue3 |
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| Barkmull |
| quote: | Originally posted by bigjimslade002
when i have a song like with a nice vocal intro with no bass at the
beginning,i'll time the vocal part to see how long it takes before the bass starts (lets say 30 seconds). |
I like that suggestion. However, what do you do when the nice vocals with no bass are in the middle of the song? Do you just skip the first part of the song, and mix it in when the vocals start?
Thanks! |
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| Dj Flesch |
It seems to me that your problem has many facets.
First off, the crowd are the ones who aren't dancing, so that means that there aren't any really experienced dancers in the crowd because otherwise, they would be dancing during the breaks! This is a part of djing that you have to learn--reading the crowd. If you realize that all the people are leaving the floor because they can't dance to part of your track, then either don't play that track, or "fix" the track so they can dance to it.
As far as Lange - Follow Me goes, that track in particular has a very long break (about 60-90 seconds on the two mixes that I had listen to just now). This is a pretty long break, you have to admit, so when you spin this track, either 1. eliminate the long break by adding your own beat from another track. If you can do it fast enough, use the next track you want to spin so you can do a teaser of that track. Or if you can't do it fast enough, then start the last track over again and use the first 30-60 seconds of that track as your beat so that your break is now quite a bit shorter. Then after your first major break you can start cueing up the next track. Or you can find a better mix of that track. 2. you can use that break to your advantage. If you've ever listened to a PVD set, then go back and listen to it again and see how many breaks he has. Usually there are a couple about 1/3 and 2/3's into the set and then one long break on either his last or second to last track. If you listen to the crowd, they go ing ape when he puts that long break in the end. Lots of other djs do that too! I've heard Tiesto stop the track and then release after he counts x number of beats in his head--and it's always after the crowd goes ape ! They do this because they have been dancing for the last 90 mins and they NEED a break! They are having such a good time that they don't want to leave the dancefloor and this is what you have to give YOUR crowd!
In short, be cautious when and where in your set you use breaks that are more than 10-15 seconds. I don't care how much you like the track, if it kills the momentum of your set, then don't use it! It may be YOUR fav. track, but I'd put money down that it's not your crowd's fav. track. ;) As for me, I only buy music that I personally like, and then I descide what portion of that is suitable to spin live. If my whole collection is music that I like, then anything that I spin from that, I will like. If my crowd "requests" (by not dancing) that I don't spin certain tracks, then I'll spin others that I like! |
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| Barkmull |
Some words of wisdom and experience from DJ Flesch.
Thanks, I appriciate that post, a very good read. |
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