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Mixing bass! (pg. 2)
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| TranceElevation |
So I guess RANN will be his executioner.
Well, meanwhile I'm taking the popcorns
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| kosmotika |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
What the are you talking about?
Removing all the frequencies between 250-800? Will sound great if you want to remove the main content of most EDM tracks, not to mention mid bass (which is what most people think is the bassline of a track), the largest part of the vocal spectrum and nearly the lower third of just about any string instrument.
I would say engineering, producing and mixing are not really your strong suits judging by that statement. |
>EDM
Also bass relies mostly on the low-end frequencies...that's the point of bass. First is with low end boosted, mids cut, second with mids there and no boost. Because that's how it's apparently supposed to be. [[ LINK REMOVED ]]
Jesus christ.
This is what I absolutely hate about some people on this site; talk a lot of crap but give little to no advice of your own and then expect anyone to know any better besides. :rolleyes: |
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| derail |
| quote: | Originally posted by kosmotika
On my older work, everyone would tell me to cut the mids to make it less muddy and all the tuts I read said this as well, so I just started removing all frequencies between 250-800. I guess that's just what I automatically do now to avoid having my songs sound messy like before.
Mastering has never been my strong suit... |
This treatment shouldn't generally be applied to the overall mix. Only if, for a given track, you realise that every single element would benefit from this treatment, would you do this.
Absolutely, some elements (pads typically, but frequently also lead elements) benefit from some well-placed cuts in that region - but again, it always depends on the exact sound you're dealing with, and where in the frequency range an EQ cut would benefit that sound in that mix, and how big a cut is appropriate.
The main part of the audible bass in most songs is in the midrange. The low frequencies are felt more than heard - if you neglect the midrange on the bass then in a lot of listening situations the bass is just going to disappear. The midrange is the most important part of a mix - without a strong midrange, a mix is going to be a lot quieter than it needs to be, and is just going to sound "thin" in a lot of listening situations.
In terms of the OP - there are great mixes where the bass registers the absolute lowest frequencies in the mix, there are great mixes where the kick does. There are mixes where they both operate fine down low. Our ears aren't much help down that low - when I'm checking out the low end I generally turn up the monitors and feel how the kick and bass are hitting me in the chest, and I'll adjust either element until the combination feels right physically. Frequency analysers can also help with the extreme low end which might be below what your speakers can reproduce. You can apply cuts to manage these frequencies (below 40 Hz), but again only cut as much as you need - there are club systems which will reproduce these low frequencies and your mix may sound weird if you cut them completely. Just because you've never felt these frequencies or are never planning to hear these frequencies doesn't mean that other listeners won't. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by kosmotika
>EDM
Also bass relies mostly on the low-end frequencies...that's the point of bass. First is with low end boosted, mids cut, second with mids there and no boost. Because that's how it's apparently supposed to be. [[ LINK REMOVED ]]
Jesus christ.
This is what I absolutely hate about some people on this site; talk a lot of crap but give little to no advice of your own and then expect anyone to know any better besides. :rolleyes: |
you don't seem to understand the concept of mixing. It is a balancing act. Taking out the mids is what rookies do because they read about mud at 250 500 , 1000
This is also were character is. Your snare has lots of energy at 125 - 500. Taking that out in a minimal track will sound terrible.
And cutting the lows even if a speaker can play them is just a smart thing. It isn't anything that i would consider musical, it doesn't add anything but physical sensations. Why take a chance when only a few systems , generally run by people that don't know what they are doing. You don't go that low even if you can. Its just recipe for ruining . the only people that do it are those hippy dub step guys in the west of USA and ya, they are kinda weird and druggy. |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by kosmotika
On my older work, everyone would tell me to cut the mids to make it less muddy and all the tuts I read said this as well, so I just started removing all frequencies between 250-800. I guess that's just what I automatically do now to avoid having my songs sound messy like before.
Mastering has never been my strong suit... |
careful with that! cutting everything between 250Hz and 800Hz - a lot of warmth in music comes from this area
Whats important is to not have loads going on here, just the right amount at the right level
edit: everyone else beat me to it :o |
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| evo8 |
back to the OP:
mixing bass is not easy, a lot depends on your monitoring system/room to accurately hear whats going on
One thing i would say is that you never need as much bass as you might think |
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| kosmotika |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
This treatment shouldn't generally be applied to the overall mix. Only if, for a given track, you realise that every single element would benefit from this treatment, would you do this.
Absolutely, some elements (pads typically, but frequently also lead elements) benefit from some well-placed cuts in that region - but again, it always depends on the exact sound you're dealing with, and where in the frequency range an EQ cut would benefit that sound in that mix, and how big a cut is appropriate.
The main part of the audible bass in most songs is in the midrange. The low frequencies are felt more than heard - if you neglect the midrange on the bass then in a lot of listening situations the bass is just going to disappear. The midrange is the most important part of a mix - without a strong midrange, a mix is going to be a lot quieter than it needs to be, and is just going to sound "thin" in a lot of listening situations.
In terms of the OP - there are great mixes where the bass registers the absolute lowest frequencies in the mix, there are great mixes where the kick does. There are mixes where they both operate fine down low. Our ears aren't much help down that low - when I'm checking out the low end I generally turn up the monitors and feel how the kick and bass are hitting me in the chest, and I'll adjust either element until the combination feels right physically. Frequency analysers can also help with the extreme low end which might be below what your speakers can reproduce. You can apply cuts to manage these frequencies (below 40 Hz), but again only cut as much as you need - there are club systems which will reproduce these low frequencies and your mix may sound weird if you cut them completely. Just because you've never felt these frequencies or are never planning to hear these frequencies doesn't mean that other listeners won't. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
you don't seem to understand the concept of mixing. It is a balancing act. Taking out the mids is what rookies do because they read about mud at 250 500 , 1000
This is also were character is. Your snare has lots of energy at 125 - 500. Taking that out in a minimal track will sound terrible.
And cutting the lows even if a speaker can play them is just a smart thing. It isn't anything that i would consider musical, it doesn't add anything but physical sensations. Why take a chance when only a few systems , generally run by people that don't know what they are doing. You don't go that low even if you can. Its just recipe for ruining . the only people that do it are those hippy dub step guys in the west of USA and ya, they are kinda weird and druggy. |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
careful with that! cutting everything between 250Hz and 800Hz - a lot of warmth in music comes from this area
Whats important is to not have loads going on here, just the right amount at the right level
edit: everyone else beat me to it :o |
Thanks for the advice guys! Looney4Chooney is absolutely correct, the only reason I've been cutting mids for all tracks is that I've been reading all over that's what should be done or else your songs will sound terrible and that this is what sound engineers usually do. :nervous:
I'll be sure to take what you guys have said into account. Funnily enough, I have been feeling like some of my songs are a little too clear lately... |
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| TranceElevation |
| Please show me where did you read to cut all the mids. |
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| TranceElevation |
First of all, I don't know how your first link qualifies as "everywhere" or "everyone" would tell me to, but is curious why you decided that a question, and not a certain affirmation, would translate as a "guide" to follow in your head. Also, just a little hint, the OP was referring to the eq curve of your final mixdown.
The second link, yes, is sort of a guide, but nowhere I've read the author inviting to cut all the mid frequencies.
And so, this 2 links are the reasons that made you think everywhere, everyone advices to cut all the mid frequencies? |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by clay
there is a reason why bass used to be between the kicks and not simultaneously, because the hard house producers couldn't afford eqs and sidechain compressors, or didnt know how to use it, same as me. same as hiphop producers as well, they remove the melody when they rap and only put it in in the "refrain" where a slut is singing me please. |
The reason has nothing to do with engineering. The 4 on the floor leaves the bass able to in. Syncopated way.
In older rock music when the bass and kick did happen simultaneously the bass player learned to play , well they would call it in the middle if the beat or In the pocket too.
Dance music was not so loud that you could still have overlap and not kill a mix. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by clay
as you can see we are most sensitive to mid range hence more careful about boosting it. it just feels less exhausting with a lesser midrange mixed track. |
And boring. You need a good balance. It is one of those things new producers do and it is prescriptive treatment they do without knowing why. |
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