Originally posted by DjStephenWiley
I have a similar problem - Not exactly the same as yours, but it boils down to me not getting done so I can relate. I always get a nice little 32 bar loop going with a nice melody, pad, chords, the whole sha-bang. I tweak everything, get all my EQ's in order, get everything sitting right in the mix, and then when it comes time to arrange the track I become completely uninspired, save all my work, and find something else to do.
Snap!!
I just find it so dam hard to break the cycle, it's really holding me back to the point where I literally never ever finish anything I start.
AlphaStarred
What DJ RANN said in OP, and pretty much this: You have to want to finish/make tracks. If you don't, you won't. It's as simple as that.
As said in Sexy Beast:
That's it. Everything else is excuses/not really wanting or willing to finish tracks.
Although when I used software before switching to hardware, I also found it much harder and was more lazy to finish tracks. With hardware it's much more intuitive and more hands-on, generally, so I'd get things done a whole lot faster, as well.
cryophonik
quote:
Originally posted by AlphaStarred
Although when I used software before switching to hardware, I also found it much harder and was more lazy to finish tracks. With hardware it's much more intuitive and more hands-on, generally, so I'd get things done a whole lot faster, as well.
Yeah, I'd say there's quite of truth to that for me as well. Generally speaking, hardware encourages improvisation and experimentation, and forces you to commit your ideas by bouncing them down, etc. in a way that software doesn't. It's too easy to fiddle endlessly with software IME.
That said, finishing tracks has never really been a problem for me, aside from the occasional creative blocks that we all get. You need to develop a mindset and workflow that starts with a vision, rather than just a loop. They don't call it "loopitis" for nothing. ;)
AlphaStarred
quote:
Originally posted by cryophonik
Generally speaking, hardware encourages improvisation and experimentation, and forces you to commit your ideas by bouncing them down, etc. in a way that software doesn't. It's too easy to fiddle endlessly with software IME.
Yup. It goes back to that Brian Eno article and the benefits of limitations found in hardware. You're not going to endlessly search for the "right" sound, because you only have so many sounds, to begin with. It's also much faster - and funner - to push buttons and tweak knobs than to click around with your mouse.
That said, I'm not trying to get back to the hardware vs. software/digital debate. There are plenty of producers who make tracks using software, but again, it's all about actually wanting and willing to make and finish tracks. I did, however, notice that with software I'm much more of a perfectionist, whereas with hardware I'd often improvise and whip something up without even planning/knowing how it would end up. Many of my tracks were done live by using a bunch of pre-programmed bars and 303 patterns I had input earlier on, and mixing them together.
Mr.Mystery
I wonder if it would help if you gave yourself a deadline in which the track would have to be finished.
AlphaStarred
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
I wonder if it would help if you gave yourself a deadline in which the track would have to be finished.
If it works for fapstronauts, it may work for you. Depends on how committed you are to your own deadline.
djnitride
quote:
Originally posted by cryophonik
You need to develop a mindset and workflow that starts with a vision, rather than just a loop. They don't call it "loopitis" for nothing. ;)
All too often have I fallen into the trap of "loopitis"
I personally find a more traditional arrangement structure can help overcome this (ie not using Bitwig or Ableton excessively in clip launcher mode)
I have had more luck compositionally lately simply composing the song in Cubasis on my iPad and then moving the result into my DAW and finishing up the details.
DjStephenWiley
quote:
Originally posted by AlphaStarred
What DJ RANN said in OP, and pretty much this: You have to want to finish/make tracks. If you don't, you won't. It's as simple as that.
Yeap. And it's hard to "want" to finish a track when it's not inspiring. It's quite sad that literally nothing inspires me anymore - and I'm not talking just music-wise.
evo8
quote:
Originally posted by cryophonik
Yeah, I'd say there's quite of truth to that for me as well. Generally speaking, hardware encourages improvisation and experimentation, and forces you to commit your ideas by bouncing them down, etc. in a way that software doesn't. It's too easy to fiddle endlessly with software IME.
That said, finishing tracks has never really been a problem for me, aside from the occasional creative blocks that we all get. You need to develop a mindset and workflow that starts with a vision, rather than just a loop. They don't call it "loopitis" for nothing. ;)
yeah hardware has helped me in that respect also
soulstar606
this is the phases of becoming a good songwriter
phase 1: trying to write songs
phase 2: finally able to complete the songs you begin
phase 3: finally able to complete songs that you are somehwat happy with(objectively)
phase 4: able to complete songs that you truly think are truly good.....objectively speaking
phase 5: able to complete songs that you think a truly good AND lots of other people think are good....(by lots i mean NOT your friends and family)
theres tons of people in phase 1
theres somehwat less in phase 2
theres even less in phase 3 ( i would put myself in this phase)
theres a very small amount in phase 4
and phase 5 is mastery of songwriting (recognition within the industry)
to get from phase 1 to phase 3 takes quite along time
phase 3 to 4 is also take a long time
phase 4 to 5 is more dependent on being able to use your skills and meet the demands of the listener.....
by phase 3 i think you will have written at least about 100 songs that you are somehwat happy with, and out of the hundereds that yuo started and completed you might truly have a couple....a handful that are actually quite good..but even still, they couldve been flukes.....because a truly good songwriter, can bang out multiple hits......no flukes...
the phase 5 is only attained by a few people...and it's the hardest phase to get to obviously
i would say prolly no one on this board is at phase 5............just saying..
keep workin
*i didnt mention the fact that there are lots of hits out there that were clearly not just written by only one person.....my phases are for one person though.....you could get a person in phase 2 hooks up with a person in phase 3/4 and they could fluke out a hit.....see what i mean?
*and when i say objectively, i mean, you can literally put yuor cans on and AB your track right next one on soudcloud with 50,000 plays and hundreds of likes....and it soudnds equivalent......this is huge a differnce though between what actually is equivalent and what isnt.....thats why its good to have second opinionis
*ppersonally, ive been through a process where I knew i sucked at writing....then after you write lots of bad songs and some fluky good ones...you start to get some decent ones....then you get too attached to them and thinkt theyre better than they actually are.....this is a crucial point...because you hit a wall and realize how sucky you still are even after youve written so many...then you will have a bit of a breakthrrough.......and you realize ok i really have somethign here....but because youve learned not be attached to your songs...you can learn how to say ok, this song is not good....whereas that one....looks pretty good.....you literally have to have a very large pool of tracks at once....and you know that maybe 10% of them have the chance to be really quite good....like right now...i have over 20 tracks in WIP right now at various stages of completeion....now i know that even though i try to make sure every one is a hit.....thats simply not going to be the reality.....so you have to learn as a songwriter not to get overly attached....and just keep writing...at some point after hundredds of attempts you will break that barrier.
*and also.....you have to make sure to be focused......you have to focus extremely hard when writing....clear everything else out........because just because you put in 100 hours on this one track....that means nothing...if you werent focused.......iyou may have learnedsome good tricks in the prcoess.....but the actual output the song will not be any good
*have to realize that certain songs arent even songs...there more like sketchboards....where it wasnt a song you were makin...it was you klearning how to do something....within the song...
*its weird because i think of mysongs as my children....but i can abort one of them or disown one in an instant........its a fine line......songs have to become like apples on a tree in a huge vineyard........its your vineyard and you can go in....and some will be rotten some will be green some will be RED....some will be fallen off the tree....that s what yur songs are...just apples.......not precious rubies....that you are hording..and over-loving.....
*so im just saying....to get to the point of not being overly attached to your songs you need to go through this process...of writing many...and thinking theure good when in reality theyu arent.....then you write many more.......its like a an apple orchard with thoussands of appels.......not all your apples will turn out. songs have to be like appeles,
*like you might spend so much time on this one track editing this and that changing rearranging...etc...and you THINK it should be ready RED apple....but in reality is sint............then some other track while you were working on it here and there , you come back to it after a third of the time spent onthe other one...and it IS RED....and it isnt just red...it's gfallen off the tree it was so plump and juicy and ready to be eaten.....where as the other one....was still green even after youd worked so long on it...and in fact...it could even be rotten..................................................so you have to step back.....assess....be objective.....think of the songs like appels....and ask yourself..which ones are RED. out of the whole orchard there hopefully will be one or two..........(ok so its not wyuite like apples because that farmer would go out of business mkay) but you get the point
Innocence Lost
quote:
Originally posted by TranceElevation
Come on people...they are good sounding tracks but are super generic.
You have tons of similar stuff out there.
+1 on the generic side.
cryophonik
quote:
Originally posted by djnitride
All too often have I fallen into the trap of "loopitis"
I personally find a more traditional arrangement structure can help overcome this (ie not using Bitwig or Ableton excessively in clip launcher mode)
I have had more luck compositionally lately simply composing the song in Cubasis on my iPad and then moving the result into my DAW and finishing up the details.
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that people fall into the loopitis trap because they approach songwriting from a detailed production standpoint, rather than from a broader musical perspective. The way that I work/think is that, once I come up with a basic musical idea (usually at the piano), I tend to think of that as being the "A" part that needs a complementary "B" part, and a contrasting "C" part, or a transitional "D" part, etc. and I get to work on those other parts and put them into a basic structure before I go into production mode. Sometimes, I end up going back and changing or moving some of the parts around, but once the basic framework is there, it's much easier to build a complete track.
So, I just wonder if that's the point where people end up with loopitis - i.e., rather than thinking, great I've got a good start on an "A" part and now need some other parts to make this into a whole track, they just start producing the out of that one "A" idea with little/no consideration or vision as to how it will fit into a completed product and end up painting themselves into a corner. It would be like a painter spending days filling a small part of a canvas with an intricately painted flower, only then to step back and think, "yeah, that flower is awesome...hmmmm....now, what should I put on the rest of the canvas?"
So, my advice is to start out with a broad, holistic perspective and a vision for your song before you start working your way down to the details.
